Winstrol & Clen

Ali M · 13-11-2006, 02:11 PM

hi guys, for those who know me you will know my current stack and ive just started the winny 50mg a day 1 tab am and 1 tab pm, now i also have some clens which i was saving till the end of my course and take it with pct. what do you think would you bang it in now whilst im on the winny or would you leave it till i start my pct.

when will it be most effective to use, thats the key. Im guessing at the end but i also hear that too many clens can have a catabolic effect, which would be very bad in pct mode. where as taken now whilst on gear i cant see then been catabolic.

Whats your views?

**LeeB** · 13-11-2006, 02:28 PM

depends on your goals mate.... if your goal is to get as shredded as possible... id take them now!

**Neil R** · 13-11-2006, 07:30 PM

I'd go with Lee on that one, the anti-catabolic effect from Clen doesn't usually manifest until 12-14 weeks in to therapy. Stick under 100mcg clen per day and you can avoid any potential catabolic effect (except the catabolic effect on lipids, of course!)
Unfortunately i've not had chance to look at your current cycle but if your coming to an end and need a good anti-catabolic then Aminoglutathimide (cytadren) @ 250mg per day would be a better and faster acting option.
Aminoglutathimide has a biological half life of approx 12 hours FYI.

**Bodyworks** · 13-11-2006, 08:03 PM

yep, but real cytadren is as available as hens teeth since i believe they don't make it any more. plus it makes you feel sh*te big time.
in my experience clen is cack for pct. I don't rate it at all in fact unless it's used alongside some thyroid med or similar.

Ali M · 14-11-2006, 01:54 PM

Thanks guys, one last thing would the clens be best stacked with T4's, along with my stack winny and prop got 4 weeks left.

p.s. my goal is to get shredded then gradually build from there, im never going to compete so dont feel i need the bulking stage and prefer to look great all year round.

Neil can you explain this for me mate "Clen doesn't usually manifest until 12-14 weeks in to therapy"

thank you

**LeeB** · 14-11-2006, 02:54 PM

think he was refferring to the "anti-catabolic" properties of clen....

alot of people use it thinking that because its said to be anti catabolic itll be impossible to lose muscle if they dont get their diet right! wrong... if your diet is wrong (i.e. not enough) and you are using clen or eph for that matter... then because your burning more calories then the body will simply burn MORE muscle!

**Bodyworks** · 14-11-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali M

Thanks guys, one last thing would the clens be best stacked with T4's, along with my stack winny and prop got 4 weeks left.

p.s. my goal is to get shredded then gradually build from there, im never going to compete so dont feel i need the bulking stage and prefer to look great all year round.

if that's what you want, then t-4's will be an effective addition.

**Neil R** · 14-11-2006, 09:20 PM

No problem Ali M mate, as Lee pointed out it is "the anti-catabolic effect from Clen doesn't usually manifest until 12-14 weeks "

T4 will be an excellent addition as one of the properties of clen is to improve the conversion of T4 to T3, but, and this is quite important, it does it at a rate that your body can cope with, so you won't end up with too much T3.
Also, always make sure you take your T4 on an empty stomach as this increases the bioavailability as the huge problem with T4 is it is over 99% bound to plasma proteins, TBG, TBPA, TBA (hence the long biological half life - which can be anywhere from 6 to 70 days!!) Plus try keep a relatively low fibre diet as fibre binds to T4 decreasing the bioavailability.

Ali M · 15-11-2006, 01:56 PM

Guy's thank you very much for your replies, greatly appreciated.

Thanks

13-11-2006, 02:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ali M Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 891 Rep Power:	Winstrol & Clen hi guys, for those who know me you will know my current stack and ive just started the winny 50mg a day 1 tab am and 1 tab pm, now i also have some clens which i was saving till the end of my course and take it with pct. what do you think would you bang it in now whilst im on the winny or would you leave it till i start my pct. when will it be most effective to use, thats the key. Im guessing at the end but i also hear that too many clens can have a catabolic effect, which would be very bad in pct mode. where as taken now whilst on gear i cant see then been catabolic. Whats your views?

13-11-2006, 02:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
LeeB Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,991 Rep Power:	depends on your goals mate.... if your goal is to get as shredded as possible... id take them now! ______________________ If your not a part of the greatest... you got to be the greatest yourself! For the best supplements: www.extremenutrition.co.uk

13-11-2006, 07:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Neil R Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 699 Rep Power:	I'd go with Lee on that one, the anti-catabolic effect from Clen doesn't usually manifest until 12-14 weeks in to therapy. Stick under 100mcg clen per day and you can avoid any potential catabolic effect (except the catabolic effect on lipids, of course!) Unfortunately i've not had chance to look at your current cycle but if your coming to an end and need a good anti-catabolic then Aminoglutathimide (cytadren) @ 250mg per day would be a better and faster acting option. Aminoglutathimide has a biological half life of approx 12 hours FYI. ______________________ APPLIED KNOWLEDGE, IS POWER!!! The real challenge is to be yourself in a world that wants you to be someone else!! www.rippedglutes.net

14-11-2006, 02:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
LeeB Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,991 Rep Power:	think he was refferring to the "anti-catabolic" properties of clen.... alot of people use it thinking that because its said to be anti catabolic itll be impossible to lose muscle if they dont get their diet right! wrong... if your diet is wrong (i.e. not enough) and you are using clen or eph for that matter... then because your burning more calories then the body will simply burn MORE muscle! ______________________ If your not a part of the greatest... you got to be the greatest yourself! For the best supplements: www.extremenutrition.co.uk

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13-11-2006, 08:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
Bodyworks Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: west yorkshire Posts: 1,011 Rep Power:	yep, but real cytadren is as available as hens teeth since i believe they don't make it any more. plus it makes you feel sh*te big time. in my experience clen is cack for pct. I don't rate it at all in fact unless it's used alongside some thyroid med or similar.

14-11-2006, 01:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ali M Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 891 Rep Power:	Thanks guys, one last thing would the clens be best stacked with T4's, along with my stack winny and prop got 4 weeks left. p.s. my goal is to get shredded then gradually build from there, im never going to compete so dont feel i need the bulking stage and prefer to look great all year round. Neil can you explain this for me mate "Clen doesn't usually manifest until 12-14 weeks in to therapy" thank you

14-11-2006, 09:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
Neil R Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 699 Rep Power:	No problem Ali M mate, as Lee pointed out it is "the anti-catabolic effect from Clen doesn't usually manifest until 12-14 weeks " T4 will be an excellent addition as one of the properties of clen is to improve the conversion of T4 to T3, but, and this is quite important, it does it at a rate that your body can cope with, so you won't end up with too much T3. Also, always make sure you take your T4 on an empty stomach as this increases the bioavailability as the huge problem with T4 is it is over 99% bound to plasma proteins, TBG, TBPA, TBA (hence the long biological half life - which can be anywhere from 6 to 70 days!!) Plus try keep a relatively low fibre diet as fibre binds to T4 decreasing the bioavailability.

15-11-2006, 01:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ali M Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 891 Rep Power:	Guy's thank you very much for your replies, greatly appreciated. Thanks