Is PCT required?

compo · 12-11-2004, 02:57 PM

I'm about to start my first cycle using a stack of Ergopharm 19-nor and AST 4-diol. The american site which recommended this for a first cycle stated that PCT wouldn't be required but recommended Saw palmetto to combat any prostrate problems and ZMA or Tribulas after the cycle. Is this good advise?

mark · 12-11-2004, 04:45 PM

Steve has used a lot of 19 nor's I am sure he is best to speak to!

GettinSwole · 12-11-2004, 07:43 PM

I would at least get some 6-oxo or Formadrol b/c the 4AD does aromatize (convert to estrogen). That's reason enough for me to have some sort of estrogen inhibitor added for PCT. 6-oxo also helps get your natural test levels up faster than you could naturally or just using trib and zma

compo · 13-11-2004, 04:05 PM

I meant to say the stack I'm using for my first cycle is Nor-diol and 4-diol. Is this any different?

GettinSwole · 13-11-2004, 05:37 PM

4-diol is 4-androstenediol.... which is 4ad.... which aromatizes as was stated above. In my opinion you should know more about what you're putting in your body before you just do a cycle. Read first, cycle second.

compo · 13-11-2004, 05:56 PM

thanks for the advice. I thought the whole point of this forum was to ask advice from others. I kow what 4-diol is and I have done some research but it doesn't hurt to hear others thoughts, much of which contradicts the original advice I was given.

GettinSwole · 13-11-2004, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compo

I meant to say the stack I'm using for my first cycle is Nor-diol and 4-diol. Is this any different?

This forum is to get help and advice. If you already knew what those were then why did you ask the question above when I gave you the original advice? My new advice is for you to understand more about things before you put them in your body... that's how most ppl get hurt. I'm not attacking you, only helping you help yourself.

compo · 13-11-2004, 10:24 PM

I appreciate your help but don't like to be patronised.The question I was asking was, does your recommendation change as i will be using nor-diol and not 19nor which I had originally asked. This subject is fairly new to me and I know I have to move fast due to the ban. The research I have done has been on the web and is based mainly on opinions but I haven't been able to answer all of my questions.

GettinSwole · 13-11-2004, 10:34 PM

in reality, there's no difference as far as activity between the diol and dione. The dione doesn't convert as readily as the diol, so the diol is a better choice. However they're still both 19-nortestosterones... PCT is still a must more for the 4ad than the 19-nor

Anonymous · 13-11-2004, 10:46 PM

i agree with swole, you should be running at least 6oxo pct on any PH cycle if not something stronger

12-11-2004, 02:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
compo Under Construction Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: England Posts: 28 Rep Power:	Is PCT required? I'm about to start my first cycle using a stack of Ergopharm 19-nor and AST 4-diol. The american site which recommended this for a first cycle stated that PCT wouldn't be required but recommended Saw palmetto to combat any prostrate problems and ZMA or Tribulas after the cycle. Is this good advise?

12-11-2004, 07:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
GettinSwole Making Progress Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: USA Posts: 372 Rep Power:	I would at least get some 6-oxo or Formadrol b/c the 4AD does aromatize (convert to estrogen). That's reason enough for me to have some sort of estrogen inhibitor added for PCT. 6-oxo also helps get your natural test levels up faster than you could naturally or just using trib and zma ______________________ thricefan@cyber-rights.net You have to do what others won't to achieve what others don't.

13-11-2004, 05:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
GettinSwole Making Progress Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: USA Posts: 372 Rep Power:	4-diol is 4-androstenediol.... which is 4ad.... which aromatizes as was stated above. In my opinion you should know more about what you're putting in your body before you just do a cycle. Read first, cycle second. ______________________ thricefan@cyber-rights.net You have to do what others won't to achieve what others don't.

13-11-2004, 10:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
GettinSwole Making Progress Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: USA Posts: 372 Rep Power:	in reality, there's no difference as far as activity between the diol and dione. The dione doesn't convert as readily as the diol, so the diol is a better choice. However they're still both 19-nortestosterones... PCT is still a must more for the 4ad than the 19-nor ______________________ thricefan@cyber-rights.net You have to do what others won't to achieve what others don't.

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12-11-2004, 04:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
mark Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: England Posts: 365 Rep Power:	Steve has used a lot of 19 nor's I am sure he is best to speak to!

13-11-2004, 04:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
compo Under Construction Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: England Posts: 28 Rep Power:	I meant to say the stack I'm using for my first cycle is Nor-diol and 4-diol. Is this any different?

13-11-2004, 05:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
compo Under Construction Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: England Posts: 28 Rep Power:	thanks for the advice. I thought the whole point of this forum was to ask advice from others. I kow what 4-diol is and I have done some research but it doesn't hurt to hear others thoughts, much of which contradicts the original advice I was given.

13-11-2004, 10:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
compo Under Construction Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: England Posts: 28 Rep Power:	I appreciate your help but don't like to be patronised.The question I was asking was, does your recommendation change as i will be using nor-diol and not 19nor which I had originally asked. This subject is fairly new to me and I know I have to move fast due to the ban. The research I have done has been on the web and is based mainly on opinions but I haven't been able to answer all of my questions.

13-11-2004, 10:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
Anonymous Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 0 Rep Power:	i agree with swole, you should be running at least 6oxo pct on any PH cycle if not something stronger