Hgh

PScarb

i am with you on the fact that it is an end game product say the iceing on the cake, as for why do i use it plain and simple mate to be better as a bodybuilder GH gives you much more than fat loss and some muscle it gives a more polished look to the muscle

robsta9

I use gh simply because I can afford to and intend to get on stage once my good mate paul scarb has done me a cutting diet.....wink, wink.
It is an end game product, by all means. I have been on it 2 years now and whilst I was not anywhere near what I am now when I started, I feel it has helped me in my crusade.
If you have money to burn, give it a go. Don't expect miracles though dude.
You'l get more bang for your buck on juice than gh, but together they are awesome.
Especially pwo with slin, but that's a totally different ball game.

sitries

i know that you wont get the size gains that you will with steroids. but, lot of the gains that steroids give are not permenant! I was mainly interested in the HGHs permenant keepable gains and the potential anti ageing effects. What are these effects if anything at all???? for example, does it reverse MPB, give you better skin etc. and can it be significant in fat loss and changing body composition. i know its expensive and i doubt il do it for a while, but its something that id be interested in doing later in life to promote good health and to slow the ageing process.

robsta9

I think for the anti-aging process the dose is a lot less than for bbing. Is hackskii on this board?
He's a guy who uses it for this method, the old git.

sitries

lol - it will be interesting to hear if anyone has any views on the anti ageing side if things?? does it really make a significant different??

Pikey

2-3 iu per day is the common doe for anti aging Which is lower than the bodybuilding does, it’s also something you need to use long term to see real benefits. – does it work yes.

Does it reverse MPB erm no ;-)

Does it improve skin condition - yes.

wogihao

Insulin has anti ageing properties as well, its much cheaper and more effective for strenght. more strenght- stronger muscles, better responce. and dirt cheap.

I meen yea your get new cell production with hgh, but come on most of us never maximise the muscle cells we already have.

PScarb

yes Insulin does all of those things but it also can make you incredibly fat and dead if you use to much so to me there is no comparison...

sitries

yeah i must admit, i dont fancy using slin coz of the risks involved with it. its a bit too hardcore for my liking. i will try HGH at some point i think. maybe for a period of a year later in life. then i can see for myself. are there a lot of fakes going around??? like with gear?

wogihao

Ok, nobody wants to pressure you into somthng you dont want to do.

The dangers of insulin are overstated - to be honest only a moron could go wrong with humalog the longer acting ones then yea the risks of problems are far higher.

I meen people have tried to kill themsleves with hundreds of IUs of slin and survived but yea if you ignore all the danger signals, and dont follow your bodys craveing for simple suggars you could do yourself serious dammage.

This article realy states the case better than I ever could.

Who's Afraid of Insulin
by -W-
updated 3/4/08

Who's afraid of insulin? Nearly everybody, it seems. Why? Several reasons:

1. One phrase keeps popping up again and again: "Insulin could kill you." Never mind that a high enough dose of any compound could kill you. Never mind that Insulin is so easy to measure correctly that a trained ape could do it.

2. A misplaced phobia that taking insulin will make you insulin dependent. This bro-ism is akin to the idea that eating fat makes you fat. While there is an element of truth to it, this fear is just not logically sound.

3. "Insulin will make you fat." It sure might, but it depends on who "you" is, and how "you" use insulin. Read on.

4. Last, but certainly not least - the key factor to most faulty dogma is this unfortunate tendency steroid board users have to parrot stuff they hear over and over again, without any regard for its logic or truth. It's as if repetition were enough to make something true. Well it's not. So if you can't explain WHY something is true, consider not saying it at all.

Here's the truth about insulin:

Novices shouldn't use it. But not because it's "dangerous". It's dangerous if someone is so damn stupid they can't figure out the correct dose. Or can't figure out whether to use a 3cc syringe or an Insulin Syringe to measure their Insulin. Yes, there is a risk that some none-too-sharp will fill up a U-100 insulin pin to 100 units, thinking it's 10 - but is that enough proof that insulin is evil, to shout "Insulin is dangerous!! It can kill you!!" from the rooftops?

Novice athletes don't need slin because (1) it's not needed at that stage of their development; moreover, (2) if it's not run properly, by an extremely fit, healthy, top-level athlete, it is as likely to make you fat as yield muscular gains. Slin is only well-tolerated by bb'ers in top condition, training frequently and intensely. Why? Because these athletes generally have low bodyfat and good insulin sensitivity in lean muscle tissue. Insulin sensitivity determines whether nutrients will be stored as fat, or used to build muscle. This is what separates the 300lb monsters from the 800lb monsters - how the different tissues respond to this powerful hormone, insulin. Before you use insulin effectively, you must have mastered the two variables that determine your insulin sensitivity. You may have heard of them before: diet, and exercise.

As a side note, I have come to believe that slin alone is of relatively marginal value without GH and/or AAS. Both GH and AAS are powerful partitioning agents, which further swing the anabolic effects of insulin toward muscle tissue. As to the GH/slin combo, I now consider both compounds virtually inseparable, because they are THAT effective together.

The Dangers of Hypoglycemia

Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) is easily avoided by ingesting a moderate amount of carbs. 10g carb (ANY carb) per iu insulin is more than enough. Still, post training, with the quick spike of a fast-acting insulin like humalog or novorapid, a user may feel some symptoms, such as light-headedness, dizziness, flushing, or sweating. Even so, with doses of 10iu and under, none of us have experienced hypo symptoms that would have been anything close to life-threatening. But we still ate extra carbs above and beyond the 6-10g/iu anyway. Why? Because sane people never take chances with their lives (and I consider myself very sane.) Moreover, the symptoms of hypoglycemia are unpleasant, and we like to avoid them.

It is fairly well-documented that 5-10 iu insulin alone is not enough to be life-threatening, even without ingestion of carbohydrates. FACT: Although it is difficult to pin down exactly what a lethal dose of insulin is, due to individual insulin sensitivity and other factors such as the type of insulin used, a lethal dose has been estimated as high as between 800 and 3,200 iu. 1

Now, despite the shockingly high number, doses of this kind are insane for any healthy individual. For example, many bb'ers experience mild hypo symptoms on very low doses of insulin, such as 10iu. Why is this?

1. Many bb'ers are in excellent condition, with very high insulin sensitivity - the better shape you are in, the more powerful insulin becomes.
2. The most popular time for insulin dosing is post-training, when blood sugar may already be fairly low, and quick energy stores depleted.

So, bottom line on the dangers of hypoglycemia:
1. Dose correctly - make sure you use a short-acting insulin, and know how to measure insulin with proper syringes, etc.
2. Dose moderately (6-10iu) for beginning to intermediate users - start low and work up
3. Consume 7-10g carbohydrates per unit insulin
4. If you've done 1-3 correctly, you have nothing to fear but fear itself

Remember, in the end, we are talking about non-lethal doses, taken in conjunction with more than adequate carbs. Can we finally let the "insulin kills" dogma die?

Insulin Dependence

Not only is dangerous hypoglycemia a non-issue for the slin user that took the time to do 5 minutes worth of learning (as posted above), but long term insulin dependence is a non-issue if a moderate protocol is used. If you're taking 20iu slin 3x ED, I wouldn't comment on what you may be doing in terms of your health.

The truth is, moderate use of insulin will not burn out pancreatic beta cells and cause insulin-dependent diabetes. In fact, just the opposite. Exogenous insulin use will actually protect the beta cells from burnout, because the pancreas no longer has to work in overdrive to crank out enough insulin to store away the massive levels of carbohydrates we force into our systems, especially around training sessions. There is at least one individual who uses insulin for life extension purposes in this manner, though he is not a bodybuilder, diabetic, or a scientist - he's just a regular guy, improving his life by injecting regular small amounts of insulin with his food. His use is well-documented online, and I highly recommend you take a look. 2

Insulin Resistance

The other long term risk attribute to insulin use is insulin resistance. This is the most accurate of the accusations against insulin use, and I do actually feel that caution is warranted.

However, the fear is blown out of proportion, and needs to be analyzed in context. When one ingests a large quantity of carbohydrates, the body must produce enough insulin to shuttle the resulting glucose, in order to keep blood sugar levels in a safe range. The only difference is where the insulin comes from, the pancreas, or a vial. The exposure is the same, except that exogenous insulin is delivered all at once, in a spike. This is highly unlikely, given the responses we know from the body's other systems and hormones to result in significantly more insulin resistance than the same amount of insulin spread over a longer period of time. In fact, the resistance might even be less with exogenous administration.

And again, as discussed in the last section, exogenous insulin actually protects the pancreas from burnout, as opposed to forcing the body to crank out insulin on short notice to clear the bloodstream of massive quantities of sugars.

Bottom line: diet and training plays a far bigger role in insulin sensitivity/resistance than moderate insulin use.

-------------------

The main fears about insulin - deadly hypoglycemia, insulin dependence, and insulin resistance - are misunderstood and greatly exaggerated. One good thing about these fears is perhaps they act as a gatekeeper to prevent the ignorant and uninformed from making stupid mistakes. Another good thing is perhaps keeping out those who have not yet attained the requisite level of development to obtain the benefits of insulin.

Once we've handled our fears, our diets, AND our training - only then can we begin to ask the important questions, like when and how should one use insulin. I'll pick up the discussion there at a later date.
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