BF% discussion

Ironclad

Tall

The short answer is no.

There isnt really any corellation between lipid storage in the adipose tissue (body fat) and the abnormal growth of mammory glands in men (Gyno)

Bodyworks

1.gynocomastia is not brought about by elevated bodyfat levels. gyno is a result of elevated oestrogen levels in males. a typical gyno removal operation involves some bodyfat removal (liposuction) from around the breast area, as well as the removal of the overgrowth (and in some cases the complete removal) of the breast gland. many overweight males show some symptoms of female appearing breast tissue. this may be due to either excess bodyfat in the area of the breast, or overgrowth of the gland or both. as as result, i would say YES to your first question.

2.my answer would be YES. use of some predominantly androgenic compounds bring with them increased risk of aromatisation into estrogen, and therefor increased risk of overgrowth of the breast gland, in males.

A misunderstanding of this issue however would be to draw the conclusion that an individual with elevated bodyfat levels should first decrease those bodyfat levels before using AAS, thereby reducing his risk of developing gynocomastia.

in short, if you have bitch tits already (glandular) then dropping bodyfat won't do sh*t. you need a surgeon. if you don't have bitch tits already, you are no more or less likely to develop them regardless of how fat you are, it's your genetic predisposition to developing them, and the amounts / types of gear you cycle that matter.

So it would be straight up incorrect to , let's say for the sake of arguement, advise someone to drop fat before embarking on a course of steroids so as to lessen their chances of developing gyno.

hope this answers your question x x x

razg

There is a well documented connection:

Excess estrogen = gyno (if prone)
More bodyfat = more aromatase enzyme
More aromatase enzyme = less testosterone, more estrogen

Tall

Of all the the overweight men you know, what % of those have gyno...

Bodyworks

well put razg. that answers explains why overweight men have an increased incidence of gyno.

Ironclad

I concur.
Also, in summary, more fat = more Aromatising of Test to estrogen.

Ironclad

BW your point 1 (above) is confused. You say, "gynocomastia is not brought about by elevated bodyfat levels. gyno is a result of elevated oestrogen levels in males" but go on to say, "many overweight males show some symptoms of female appearing breast tissue. this may be due to ~ excess bodyfat".
You firstly disagree, but then talk yourself back into it.

I also have trouble understanding why if you (then go on to) agree with Razg (who hit it bang on IMHO) you could think, "A misunderstanding of this ~ would be to draw the conclusion that an individual with elevated bodyfat levels should first decrease those bodyfat levels before using AAS, thereby reducing his risk of developing gynocomastia." Why? Look at it like this, if you are already at a higher than normal risk of (the chance of) gyno then this will at the very least be the same when cycling steriods. ((we haven't even begun to figure in the aromatising element yet!)) Do you see?

Also, your conclusion, "So it would be straight up incorrect to ~advise someone to drop fat before embarking on a course of steroids so as to lessen their chances of developing gyno." doesn't really follow.

My answers the the OP questions? i) Yes, obviously. ii) No necessarily, but you are already in the risk group, try not to add more androgens.

Here's a read, also includes pseudo-gyno:-
Description of Gynecomastia

Gyno is fairly common. It is a physiologic phenomenon that occurs during puberty, when at least half of males experience enlargement of one or both breasts. Pubertal hypertrophy is characterized by a tender discoid enlargement of the breast tissue beneath the areola and usually subsides spontaneously within a year. Gynecomastia also is common among elderly men, particularly when there is associated weight gain.
This condition is usually temporary and benign. It may be caused by hormonal imbalance, medication with estrogens or steroidal compounds, or failure of the liver to inactivate circulating estrogen, as in alcoholic cirrhosis.
Pseudogynecomastia is breast enlargement due to fat accumulation.
Pseudogynecomastia can be distinguished by physical examination. The tissue often is freely mobile and may be exquisitely tender to palpation during the acute phase of development of gynecomastia.

Causes and Risk Factors of Gynecomastia

The causes of gynomasty are multiple. A search for a common mechanism has not been successful. A number of researchers believe that in many cases (but not all), an altered androgen/estrogen ratio causes changes in cellular elements in breast tissue. This could be due to: decrease in production of androgen
increase in estrogen formation
Drugs that may cause gynecomastia include:
Hormones (androgens, anabolic steroids, estrogen agonists)
Recreational drugs, such as alcohol and marijuana
*Steroids and other excess androgens are sometimes converted by the body into estrogens and consequently cause male breast problems.

Treatment of Gynecomastia


Choices of treatment for gyno depend on several factors. The first is the cause of the disorder. If the gynecomastia is drug-induced, discontinuance of the agent may be all that is needed. If it is pubertal, watchful waiting is in order, since in most patients the condition will resolve spontaneously. In general, the indications for treatment include: marked pain and tenderness, severe embarrassment or emotional disturbance. The most uniformly effective therapy at any stage is surgical removal. (effective but not the first step)

So there you have it boys! Fat, estrogen, gyno. You still wanna add another enzyme to the next over-weight members "how do i do this cycle, i'm fat?"...
I'd say, good diet + good training routine + time = low BF%
Low BF% = no man boobs (amongst other things)
Thanks for the input Razg, thought i was alone. Cheers.
(Tall, read the above twice. You are miles off)

Tall

Wow. Thats me told.

Your C&P just shows that hormonal changes are responsible for Gyno. Doesn't highlight a risk that carrying more chub that the average competing BB'er means you are likely to get Gynecomastia (thats how you spell it by the way...)

Adolescents, old men, the clinically obese and males with dense copious body hair are in the risk category for Gyno.

Ironclad

Thanks mate. And i agree with the 'average BBer' bit you stated. It just seems to be an extra (possible) confounding factor to add an aromatising agent (test etc) when in a risk group already, if you get my meaning. Also, just to bore the crap out of you lol, it should logically follow that if you want to start take steriods you really ought to control the beer n chip diet!
For as my C/P paper states (i'd love to hand write this but...), "causes are, increased androgens (this is linked to highBF, as seen on Razg's post) and steriods." (amongst other things, naturally)
Ok,ok, some if not most will get away with juicing and getting fat at the Nags head. But is it really worth risking it, and more importantly (to me) would you recomend it??
Thanks boys. And i hope i have shown that i am giving this (AAS) topic some thought, if anything it's my lack of depth in some of my posts that lets me down.
Thanks again