Gaining weight from cycles (long post for experienced brains)

Ironclad

Bodyworks

Glad i've made a decent contribution for a change, cheers!!
I fully plan to start a cycle myself before long and i've been thinking of this for some time now, i'm chomping at the bit as i have all i need to get going (lowering bf% 1st tho, to be safe..). I think i'm asking Qs like this to get a deeper understanding of what i'm getting into, how dramatic the weight gain (really) is; the weight loss potential (if any) etc. Knowledge is power eh!
The diet and regular gym are key, goes without saying, wether a AAS user or not. But i wonder if folk have noticed that they really do keep permenantly all their gains, or if they discovered that (despite v.high protien, gym etc etc) occasional steriod cycles help or are needed. Bit like two steps forward (on) > one step back (off).
Thanks again fellas, i'm off coz i'm rambling... sorry!! lol

sitries

yeah thats true cal. im going to eat slightly less carbs on this 1 and see how the gains are. im still going to eat a hell of a lot though!!! im 2weeks in now and starting to fell the extra strength creeping in and my weight has also crept up. bring it on!!!!!

Neil R

Many people don't make gains from subsequent cycles because they don't plan a cycle out properly.
this includes the TIME OFF after a cycle. The longer you are on and the higher dosage you take, the longer it will take you to fully "clean out".
People who think they can do 1000mg of test a week for 12 weeks and then only have a 2 week break are completely p1ssing in the wind!!!

rossirossi

Il throw in my 2cents as i find this quite intresting and given it alot of thought.

I believe through a combination of genetics and hormone levels we all have a genetic muscle limit...ie everybody reaches a plateau and trying to gain muscle by upping training and cals will just lead to fat gain and a plateau in the gym.

When people talk of gaining 20Ibs on there first cycle i believe this is because there not near there genetic limit or at the very least just under it. If 50% of what they gain is muscle and they keep it it stands to reason that there body can handle and hold onto the extra weight hence being under there genetic potential before starting...We're all designed to adapt to the enviroment around us so our bodys can gain muscle if we're in a hard working enviroment (think cave man duties). But how do we know what our genetic limit is? We dont...!

I think anything we gain OVER our genetic limit whilst using any steroid will eventually perish, (maybe why drug tested athletes are allowed back to compete 1-2years after getting caught!?) the only way i believe to keep this new muscle would be to do another cycle before this muscle deminishes to basically 'top it up' and add new. Certainly good pct, diet and training can extend the time inbetween cycles to hold the weight. Then to throw into the equation...hgh and insulin...I think may alter the body perminantly but not to the degree needed to hold onto 40Ibs of muscle gained through years of steroids....look at kevron levrone now! (spelling, sorry kev)

Then again i can quite easily understand why people think there baseline weight has changed after a cycle...but this could be to all sorts of external factors from less stress at work, better food, better training right through to a previous cycle rebooting the hpta system. Then again i could be wrong about all of this!

Just my 2cents

sitries

this is def an interesting one. i remember seeing dorian yate a few years back and he was tiny compared to his old size. that just shows that you will lose a shit load of it. i wonder what will happen to Ronnie Coleman??? i can see him getting that small!

wogihao

I think i said it before in a diffrent thread, Honestly i think the keepable gains stuff is BS. most people spend far less time off then they realy like to say. Also thinking it through if you built the muscle tissue in a state of external androgens in the body how do you expect your body to keep the gains when the external PEDs are removed and even if you could totaly mitigate the catabolic back lash after a cycle (from a pie in the sky perfect PCT). how would your body support all the extra mass that was created when the bodys hormones were at a far highter level than normal?

It takes time but i beleve that eventualy all the gains on cycle eventualy dissapear. the body likes blanance and you need to manipulate various factors to go beyond that.

Also I would speculate that most people are in reality burst cruseing but not knowing it, they do a 12 week cycle of say a gram of test a week plus a oral like dbol for 4 weeks.

what happens is after the cycle theres a masive amount of test present in the system it will take weeks and weeks to clear and return to pre cycle levels. so time on time off realy isnt totaly clear especialy as many include a PCT protical in this.

so what there doing is realy cruseing for 4-5 weeks on that dose then comes the real crash but most go back on well before that in reality to keep the gains.

There are other aproaches like slin/hgh in the PCT but this is just in effect masking the crash by promoteing growth through another mechinism.

honestly if your over your genetic limit you need to be on somthing all the time (levels of hormones/peds vary but burst cruse cycles are very popular).

Otherwise you will lose the gains from the cycle.

However cruseing on PEDs is essentialy never comming off, its a lifestyle choice at that point and I wouldnt recomend it unless the person was thinking of competeing.

rossirossi

Well said ^

CMinOZ

I am certainly not an expert on this subject, but I am doing my own research into the use of AAS.

I understood the gains earned during AAS use are as much due to the amount you eat and the intensity with which you train. Given appropriate PCT and that your diet will remain consistent and that you don't revert to training like a weak willed pussy, you should keep a fair amount of your leam mass gains.

Is this wrong?

wogihao

problem is there is no perfect PCT, your going to get a cortosol (spelling) responce to all the extra hormones in your body. that will destroy muscle tissue after all the extra hormones have cleared the system.

Also consider that the muscle tissue was built during a peroid of extra hormones so when there removed theres no longer the hormonal suport for the extra tissue... without that most of the volumiseing effect from water retention and extra nuturents that the PEDs promote in the cells will dissapear...

You just wont be able to keep the strenght gains on cycle its just wont happen because you can train so much harder and longer when you have extra hormones.