Which Fat Loss Should I Run

axalotl2000 · 27-01-2007, 10:23 PM

hiya guys im thinking of losing the bulk and BODY FAT. let me know what you think is best and if you have tried them.not sure what to do (before you all tell me i know the sides of dnp)
DNP
CYTOMEL AND CLEN
ECA
HELIOS
GROWTH HORMONE

razg · 28-01-2007, 01:18 AM

Test, Albuterol, T3/T4 combo. GH too if you have money to burn.

***PScarb*** · 28-01-2007, 10:05 AM

i have tried them all in my opinion the order you should use them is...

Diet
Diet
ECA
Diet
Helios
Diet
Clen
Diet
T3
Diet
GH
Diet
DNP
ooh and Diet....

you should first lose weight by altering your diet before looking at fat loss meds then you should start with the ones that have a proven record with the least sides....

razg · 28-01-2007, 01:53 PM

I don't see any reason to ever use clen given the multitude of studies showing cardiac myopathy.

***PScarb*** · 28-01-2007, 02:45 PM

but the studies show cardiac myopathy on rats at a dose that would never be used by a human as it is far to high so really i do not see a problem as long as you do not abuse it

razg · 28-01-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pscarb

but the studies show cardiac myopathy on rats at a dose that would never be used by a human as it is far to high so really i do not see a problem as long as you do not abuse it

That is not quite the case. The dosages used in the following study would translate to around 100mcg for a 100kg bodybuilder - quite a normal dosage.

Quote:

J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1) . In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.

**Neil R** · 28-01-2007, 07:45 PM

Sorry to crash the party mate but...

Quote:

1 microg kg(-1),

means 1 microgram per 1/10th of a kg. (-1) is maths notification of 'to the power of -1 (or divided by 10)
which means the dosage given was 1mcg per 100grams bodyweight.
Which for a 100kg adult would be 1000mcg. And this study states that this was....

Quote:

The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis

So, the take home message really is - Do not regularly take 10 times the required dose of clenbuterol.

I knew my 'A' level in Maths would come in handy eventually

Even if it has taken 12 years!! LOL

**Bodyworks** · 28-01-2007, 07:49 PM

DNP is crazy, clen is sh*te, albuterol is useless unless you have asthma, ECA works, although i don't like it personally, helios i've never tried, T3 or T4 will speed up your metabolism, with all the side effects that brings, and hgh is very expensive.

Have you ever tried CV ?

***PScarb*** · 28-01-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil R

Sorry to crash the party mate but...

means 1 microgram per 1/10th of a kg. (-1) is maths notification of 'to the power of -1 (or divided by 10)
which means the dosage given was 1mcg per 100grams bodyweight.
Which for a 100kg adult would be 1000mcg. And this study states that this was....

So, the take home message really is - Do not regularly take 10 times the required dose of clenbuterol.

I knew my 'A' level in Maths would come in handy eventually

Even if it has taken 12 years!! LOL

I knew it was a high dose unless you know some one who does 1000mcg's ed Raz

Shane i would say that normal oral Clen is not for everyone i have much better results with either the oral liquid versions or Helios (which rocks) but you are bang on with the CV...

**LeeB** · 28-01-2007, 08:55 PM

cardio and diet is what gets rid of it. the rest just speed it up some!

clen works well for me!

27-01-2007, 10:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
axalotl2000 Making Progress Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 202 Rep Power:	Which Fat Loss Should I Run hiya guys im thinking of losing the bulk and BODY FAT. let me know what you think is best and if you have tried them.not sure what to do (before you all tell me i know the sides of dnp) DNP CYTOMEL AND CLEN ECA HELIOS GROWTH HORMONE

28-01-2007, 01:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
razg Legend Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Birmingham/Bristol Posts: 886 Rep Power:	Re: Which Fat Loss Should I Run Test, Albuterol, T3/T4 combo. GH too if you have money to burn.

28-01-2007, 10:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
*PScarb* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,021 Rep Power:	Re: Which Fat Loss Should I Run i have tried them all in my opinion the order you should use them is... Diet Diet ECA Diet Helios Diet Clen Diet T3 Diet GH Diet DNP ooh and Diet.... you should first lose weight by altering your diet before looking at fat loss meds then you should start with the ones that have a proven record with the least sides.... ______________________ www.omegalabs.co.uk http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/at...ough/index.php

28-01-2007, 01:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
razg Legend Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Birmingham/Bristol Posts: 886 Rep Power:	Re: Which Fat Loss Should I Run I don't see any reason to ever use clen given the multitude of studies showing cardiac myopathy.

28-01-2007, 02:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
*PScarb* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,021 Rep Power:	Re: Which Fat Loss Should I Run but the studies show cardiac myopathy on rats at a dose that would never be used by a human as it is far to high so really i do not see a problem as long as you do not abuse it ______________________ www.omegalabs.co.uk http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/at...ough/index.php

28-01-2007, 07:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bodyworks Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: west yorkshire Posts: 1,009 Rep Power:	Re: Which Fat Loss Should I Run DNP is crazy, clen is sh*te, albuterol is useless unless you have asthma, ECA works, although i don't like it personally, helios i've never tried, T3 or T4 will speed up your metabolism, with all the side effects that brings, and hgh is very expensive. Have you ever tried CV ? ______________________ my missus www.rachael-grice.co.uk

28-01-2007, 08:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
LeeB Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,984 Rep Power:	Re: Which Fat Loss Should I Run cardio and diet is what gets rid of it. the rest just speed it up some! clen works well for me! ______________________ If your not a part of the greatest... you got to be the greatest yourself! For the best supplements: www.extremenutrition.co.uk

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Loss of appetite	Nick500	General Diet & Nutrition Questions	18	15-10-2006 06:51 PM
Fat loss	BigDom	Beginners Area	1	08-05-2006 08:06 PM
Fat Loss?	salts	General Diet & Nutrition Questions	11	11-04-2006 02:01 PM
Super Fat Loss- My DNP Log	evangelionpunk	Performance Enhancement & Anabolic steroids	49	22-11-2005 12:10 PM
Fat Loss Before Cycle	nothillguy	General Diet & Nutrition Questions	2	01-06-2005 12:53 PM