DECA AND SUS

raj

GUYS NEED ADVICE

I BEEN ON 4 CYCLES NOW, NORMALLY INCLUDE DECA OR SUS INTO IT, NY LAST ONE WAS 400 DECA AND 500 SUS A WEEK AND GAINED ABOUT 1 STONE IM 27 AND TRAIN 4-5 TIMES A WEEK WITH 6-7 MEALS A DAY.

I WOULD LIKE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON A NEW CYCLE, WOULD NOT LIKE TO USE ANY UG LABS.

IM THINKING
WK1 - 400 DECA 500 SUS
WK2 -6 600 DECA 750 SUS
WK7-8 400 DECA 500 SUS
WK8-10 WINNY EOD
PCT PROVIRON AND CLOMID[/b]

Neil R

Not too bad a stack as your working with what you have tried, tested and found to work for you in the past. I'd only make a couple of ammendments, personnally.
WK1 & 2...:- 750mg Sust + 600mg Deca
Wk3-6......:- 500mg Sust + 400mg Deca
Wk7 & 8...:-400mg Deca
Wk 8-10...:- 50mg Win EOD

Wk 1-8...:- 25mg Proviron ED
Wk11-13:- Hcg @ 1000iu 2day on 2off
Wk11-13:- 20mg Nolvadex ED
Wk 14-16:- 2000mg Milk Thistle ED

Nick500

Neil R why stop test 4 whole weeks before the end of the cycle?

Nick

LeeB

sust is technically active for 4 weeks.. but ive always started PCT 3 weeks after sust.

Neil R

..as Lee said, Sust is active for 4 weeks and with the mix of esters it has its own convenient taper system.
The Deca & Winny overlap is so that the taper also goes from a high Androgenic mix to a more anabolic, lower androgenic mix. This will allow your body a small leeway in bringing its own test levels back whilst an anti-catabolic drug is still in use therefore helping to reduce the cortisol reaction a little. Which is why the PCT starts straight after instead of during....a kind of 'catch the ball and run' system.
Although , when you comence PCT is really an individual thing as some people are more prone to aromatase than others etc.etc

Bodyworks

what do you mean here neil?

Neil R

Basically, Test has an androgen:anabolic ratio of 1:1
Whereas deca & winstol are both 'around' 1:6 [i.e - 6 times less androgenic than they are anabolic] therefore they have less an effect on your bodies Androgen levels than test would, this subsequent reduction in androgens (from going from test to winstrol/Deca) is picked up by the body via the negative feedback loop so your body signals to the testes to slowly increase the level of androgens (test) that it is producing. However, the deca & winstrol are still exerting an anti-catabolic effect on the muscle cells, so the resultant cortisol release (why you lose weight post cycle) is blunted; this enable you to retain more muscle mass after cessation.

Hope this makes things a tad clearer???

{Hm, clear as mud }

Bodyworks

i disagree bud. once the HTPA is surpressed, by whatever substance, switching to a less androgenic substance won't allow an increase in the body's endogenous testosterone production (if i understand what you're saying correctly). your body will not read the decreased androgen intake as a signal to restart it's own production, rather it will still read that there is still an excess (all be it decreased) of androgens in the system, and as such , the testes have no reason to restart testosterone production.
here lies the reason why the practise of overbridging does not show any beneficial effect on the HTPA.

Neil R

It would if the signals were akin to a lightswitch i.e - on or off, however they in fact act more like dimmers. The science bears this fact out too.
As androgens are introduced to the system, your body doesn't just switch off test production, it reduces it over a peroid of days or weeks , depending on the level of androgenicty of the substance. And like wise, when androgens are removed from the system (be it gradually or abruptly) your bodies test gradually increases, the only difference is it takes longer to get back than it does to reduce.

I'm not saying it comes back with any drastic measure, it could only be as little as 50-100 ng/dl, but if your test levels are suppressed from (as an example) 800 ng/dl to 150ng/dl then surely its better to bridge and be able to start from 250ng/dl as their is less 'distance to travel' and you are already going in the right direction.

It is of course all down to the individual and their goals, and as such is merely one option available to the user. However, in my experiance most people who taper/bridge lose less when they come off. But genetics can play a part in that too.


PS - Just how good is Rach with that Hoola-Hoop??

Bodyworks

well, we'll just have to disagree on this one. I've never felt that tapering off was beneficial either, true there is a less sudden weight loss, but only because the level of water retention subsides as the dosage does, so the weight is lost over a longer period.

p.s Rach doesn't eat crisps ???