deca on its own ?

ian · 10-11-2006, 08:58 PM

after a few replies (thanks) most of you were saying that deca is not a great choice for using it on its own can anybody reccommend a cycle to complement it or should i get rid and start something totally different . i am a first time user . thanks your help is much appreciated

Nick500 · 10-11-2006, 10:30 PM

test on its own.

ian · 11-11-2006, 12:28 AM

thanks nic.what type how much and how frequent?will i have to change my pct (ive got tomoxifen ) i weigh 12st 10.is sustanon a type of test?

Casanova_2ml · 11-11-2006, 03:23 AM

hi,

I use the nandrolone (deca) in this dosage = 4mg / Kg of body
Whit dianabol 40mg/day
Whit Sustanon 250mg/week
Proviron 50mg/day

It's a basic cycle for mee and i like it... the cycle is 6-8 week
After the cycle i use Hcg whit clomid

by

**Neil R** · 12-11-2006, 03:01 PM

I wouldn't mind knowing exactly where the idea that deca is such a bad choice has originated from??
All the scientific literature I have researched does not bear any grounds on which this idea is founded.
For example, Deca will elevate blood lipid levels more so than Test does, however less so than Methenolone (Primo), therefore on this basis test is better than deca, which is better than Primo.
However, test has a high affinity for the aromatase enzymes, more so than deca; and deca more so than primo: In this case therefore Primo is better than Deca, which is better than Test.
Likewise, test converts to DHT, and if you value your hair & prostate, this is a bad thing, however Deca has no ability to convert to DHT and Primo, even though a DHT derivitive, exerts a statistically insignificant effect on the DHT receptors (as the body cannot reverse the man made alteration to the molecule).

Therefore , taking into account these three 'more common' side effects Deca ACTUALLY fairs "middle of the road to good" in terms of effectiveness and safety.

So, once again, why the bad rap??

Anyone give any legitimate reasons? Preferably from a Pharmaceutical companies reference, as I found, and not just any old pish posted on the net by some wannabe!
I am genuinely interested, so please, serious replies only!!

Thanx

razg · 12-11-2006, 03:39 PM

Neil - I don't have (the time to find any) studies to this effect, however IIRC the shutdown caused by progestins (deca/tren) is more than that of test for example, due to the fact it causes shutdown at the pituitary level rather than just the testes. I'm sure based on this you could find some more info.

**Neil R** · 12-11-2006, 06:59 PM

Yeah, i am aware of this however, it seems that people are slightly missing the point. Nandrolone & trenbolone are progestrins (specifically 19-norprogesterone) which although has a stronger affinity for the progesterone receptor, has a weaker action. Kind of like taking clomid as an anti-estrogen. It sits on the receptor but exerts a lesser effect than the parent molecule. So it is predominantly dependant on your natural progesterone levels. If you have high pregesterone levels deca will actually act as an anti-progesterone, whereas if you have low progesterone levels it will act pro-progesteronically (Not sure if thats a real word in English, but its supposed to mean it'll act as a progesterone).

But again it comes down to the fact that this is only one adverse effect, that apparently is only an issue with high doses (although no definition is provided as to what entails a 'high dose' ; its usually 600mg+ per week; although a study on HIV patients used 800mg/week for 13 weeks with no reported side effects, so who knows); And you have to take into account ALL side effects when deciding on a substance for use i.e - weigh up the pros & cons etc.

The only definate reason I know of is the extra-ordinary ability to bind to blood plasma and therefore be detectable for in excess of a year after use. I think Boldenone is next at about 5-6 months!?

Really could do with finding out what a pharmaceutical company classes as a high dose of Nandrolone??!!?

Young Gun · 12-11-2006, 07:10 PM

Good info Neil very good addition to the board great to have you here.

**Neil R** · 12-11-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Gun

Good info Neil very good addition to the board great to have you here.

Cheers mate,
As I believe I've said in another post, we're ALL learning all the time, thats the great thing about bodybuilding, theres always something else you can learn; and I'm always interested in learning new things!! The best way to do this is on forums such as this one & RG, which are, from what I've seen so far, friendly and all after the same thing....share information to get a better physique.

And not spew out hater sh1te

If I have something I can share with others I will, and if I have questions that are bugging me, I'll ask 'em!

One day, between us all, we might even create another Dorian!! A British bodybuilder who can take on all comers...AND WIN!!!

This is a great site, i'm thoroughly enjoying being here. Might take a while to get to 500 posts to get in VIP suite though!!!! LOL

ian · 12-11-2006, 09:00 PM

nice one neil you obviously know your stuff .the guy who got my gear gets all his info off a pharmsist (a good friend and bodybuilder) so i was a bit surprised to see posts not recomending deca as a good choice for a first timer .like you say hopefully somebody can give us some other info .great site this, thanks for replies.

10-11-2006, 08:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
ian Under Construction Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 38 Rep Power:	deca on its own ? after a few replies (thanks) most of you were saying that deca is not a great choice for using it on its own can anybody reccommend a cycle to complement it or should i get rid and start something totally different . i am a first time user . thanks your help is much appreciated

10-11-2006, 10:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Nick500 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,230 Rep Power:	test on its own. ______________________ - Obsession is what lazy people call dedication -

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11-11-2006, 12:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
ian Under Construction Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 38 Rep Power:	thanks nic.what type how much and how frequent?will i have to change my pct (ive got tomoxifen ) i weigh 12st 10.is sustanon a type of test?

11-11-2006, 03:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
Casanova_2ml Making Progress Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: FRANCE Posts: 101 Rep Power:	hi, I use the nandrolone (deca) in this dosage = 4mg / Kg of body Whit dianabol 40mg/day Whit Sustanon 250mg/week Proviron 50mg/day It's a basic cycle for mee and i like it... the cycle is 6-8 week After the cycle i use Hcg whit clomid by

12-11-2006, 03:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Neil R Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 699 Rep Power:	I wouldn't mind knowing exactly where the idea that deca is such a bad choice has originated from?? All the scientific literature I have researched does not bear any grounds on which this idea is founded. For example, Deca will elevate blood lipid levels more so than Test does, however less so than Methenolone (Primo), therefore on this basis test is better than deca, which is better than Primo. However, test has a high affinity for the aromatase enzymes, more so than deca; and deca more so than primo: In this case therefore Primo is better than Deca, which is better than Test. Likewise, test converts to DHT, and if you value your hair & prostate, this is a bad thing, however Deca has no ability to convert to DHT and Primo, even though a DHT derivitive, exerts a statistically insignificant effect on the DHT receptors (as the body cannot reverse the man made alteration to the molecule). Therefore , taking into account these three 'more common' side effects Deca ACTUALLY fairs "middle of the road to good" in terms of effectiveness and safety. So, once again, why the bad rap?? Anyone give any legitimate reasons? Preferably from a Pharmaceutical companies reference, as I found, and not just any old pish posted on the net by some wannabe! I am genuinely interested, so please, serious replies only!! Thanx

12-11-2006, 03:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
razg Legend Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Birmingham/Bristol Posts: 886 Rep Power:	Neil - I don't have (the time to find any) studies to this effect, however IIRC the shutdown caused by progestins (deca/tren) is more than that of test for example, due to the fact it causes shutdown at the pituitary level rather than just the testes. I'm sure based on this you could find some more info.

12-11-2006, 06:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
Neil R Moderator Musclechat Icon Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 699 Rep Power:	Yeah, i am aware of this however, it seems that people are slightly missing the point. Nandrolone & trenbolone are progestrins (specifically 19-norprogesterone) which although has a stronger affinity for the progesterone receptor, has a weaker action. Kind of like taking clomid as an anti-estrogen. It sits on the receptor but exerts a lesser effect than the parent molecule. So it is predominantly dependant on your natural progesterone levels. If you have high pregesterone levels deca will actually act as an anti-progesterone, whereas if you have low progesterone levels it will act pro-progesteronically (Not sure if thats a real word in English, but its supposed to mean it'll act as a progesterone). But again it comes down to the fact that this is only one adverse effect, that apparently is only an issue with high doses (although no definition is provided as to what entails a 'high dose' ; its usually 600mg+ per week; although a study on HIV patients used 800mg/week for 13 weeks with no reported side effects, so who knows); And you have to take into account ALL side effects when deciding on a substance for use i.e - weigh up the pros & cons etc. The only definate reason I know of is the extra-ordinary ability to bind to blood plasma and therefore be detectable for in excess of a year after use. I think Boldenone is next at about 5-6 months!? Really could do with finding out what a pharmaceutical company classes as a high dose of Nandrolone??!!?

12-11-2006, 07:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
Young Gun Illuminati Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,539 Rep Power:	Good info Neil very good addition to the board great to have you here.

12-11-2006, 09:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
ian Under Construction Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 38 Rep Power:	nice one neil you obviously know your stuff .the guy who got my gear gets all his info off a pharmsist (a good friend and bodybuilder) so i was a bit surprised to see posts not recomending deca as a good choice for a first timer .like you say hopefully somebody can give us some other info .great site this, thanks for replies.