Do you lose your gains after the completion of a cycle?

jarman · 10-01-2006, 05:44 AM

I am interested in starting up my first cycle, consisting of 500mg test enanthate per week and 20-25mg dbol everyday. I am curious to whether or not you will lose all of your gains after the completion of a cycle...? People tell me that it all turns to fat...is this true?

FierceFrets · 10-01-2006, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarman

I am interested in starting up my first cycle, consisting of 500mg test enanthate per week and 20-25mg dbol everyday. I am curious to whether or not you will lose all of your gains after the completion of a cycle...? People tell me that it all turns to fat...is this true?

Prepare yourself as im not the only one that gonna say this to you.

You are not ready to do this course if you cannot answer simple questions and dispell myth's on your own

. No offence mate, but you need to do alot more learning. The good news is that most of the guys on here will help you

I may have missed this in another thread but how old are you and whats your lifting experience like?

Ive noticed that your dosages are pretty spot on, so thats a real good start

How long are you planning to run test enenthate?
How long are you running dbol?

You should be able to answer at least this set of questions to start with...

What are the pros and cons of injectables?
What are the pros and cons of orals?
Do you know what PCT is?
Nolva?
Clomid?
Tamoxifen? (trick question?)
HCG?
How long should your PCT last?
What are you gonna do if you nipples start to itch?
What is a drugs 'half life'
How long is the dbol in your system for?
How long is test enethate in your system for?
How long should you wait after your last jab to start pct?
why?

This info is plastered oll over the site mate! If you get stuck ask again!

:twisted: Fierce

SoulCard · 10-01-2006, 01:52 PM

...well he's right...but to answer your question...proper pct and diet and training will help ensure that you keep 80-90% of your gains...

Andy1981iron · 10-01-2006, 03:44 PM

This was his intro...

Hey, no problem, whatever helps, I am 21 and have been training seriously since I was 16. When I first started training I was bone thin, weighing in at 130 lbs. at 5'5". I am now about 5'8 at roughly 155 lbs. I train heavy and always use proper form (I have confirmed this with multiple personal trainers in my gym). My diet consists of between 6-7 meals daily (including 2 protein shakes). I eat more than my friends can believe, and each of them weighs a good fifty lbs. more than me, haha. Daily caloric intake is roughly 4,000 calories and I am a big fan of egg whites, double hamburgers, steak hoagies (double steak), vegetables, chocolate or strawberry milkshakes, almonds, toast lathered in heavy amts of peanut butter, tuna, ect. I stay sure I don't exceed 2 1/2 hours without some source of a high-calorie meal containing 35-40 grams of protein. My gains came to a stop about 9 months ago, and I am unable to exceed a max of 215lbs on a flat bench, 235 on squat, and 225 on deadlift, and can't put on an ounce for the life of me . I do NO cardio in fear that I will burn needed calories. I've decided that gear may in fact be the only way I can achieve the kind of results I have in mind. Does this help at all...?

155 at 5ft 8in. You could put at least another 20 lbs on naturally yet, eat more!

Gear is not the answer....food is!

Could you please post your routine? As it's possible you could be overtraining.

reef · 10-01-2006, 06:25 PM

Something is definitely wrong there, after 5 years serious training I would be expecting more than around 100kg for squat/deadlifts. The bench seems about right, as ~100kg is a relatively good lift for 5 years, but If training properly with a good routine, squat and deadlift should be much higher.

At the end of the day, at 5ft 8 and 155lbs, if someone isnt gaining at least a little, then either diet or routine is a fault. In this case, I am betting its a combination of both.

If you cant gain naturally, you wont keep much on gear.

jarman · 10-01-2006, 08:13 PM

I was planning to run test enanthate for 10 weeks and the dbol for 4 as a kickstart (I have to credit the pointers on dosages to caymen)

Okay, tell me where I'm wrong on my answers to your questions fiercefrets, because I may need slight alterations...

pros & cons of injectables/orals - injectables are preferred to oral as they are not as hard on the liver being that your body is not forced to sort through them within a 24 hour period (as it is with orals); however, orals offer quicker results because they enter your system faster. With injectables, there is also a risk of infection.

okay, here we go, I didn't know what PCT was, but now I see that this helps you to maintain gains after completion of a cycle? Not sure how long to wait between the time of your last injection and the start of PCT tho.

I believe Nolvadex(tamoxifen) and clomid are used to counteract gyno by competing for the estrogen receptors?

HCG- (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin) - used to stimulate testicular descent, growth & development. Helps to kickstart your natural produc. of test.

If your nipples start to itch, this is an initial sign that gyno is underway. To counteract this, one should ALWAYS have some nolva or clomid on hand.

I believe a drugs "half-life" is the amount of time that it remains in your bloodstream?

D-bol stays in your system for up to 6 hours.
Test enanthate stays in your sys for 4-5 days?

I have done a lot of reading on this stuff, guess the prob was that I was unfamiliar with PCT.

Thnx

SoulCard · 10-01-2006, 08:36 PM

IMHO go 12 weeks, not 10 on the test...how much dbol per day you planning on?

PCT stands for Post Cycle Therapy...a course of treatment that will hasten your bodies recovery to normal after using exogeneous test whily your body is producing none...

Clomid and nolva are very different drugs and do very different things and are used for different reasons...better spend some more time figuring that part out...

...start your pct for your cycle 14 days after your last application (injection) of test E...

finephysique · 10-01-2006, 09:39 PM

Muscle cannot turn to fat just as fat cannot turn to muscle just like you cannot turn water into wine (except Jesus) they are two totally different substances, you may lose quite a bit of weight post cycle but if your diet and PCT are right then this weight will be mainly water weight

FierceFrets · 11-01-2006, 05:33 PM

Hey Jarman,

Good stuff matey, well on your way

The other guys are right too though, about you having natural potential left, but i know how you feel! I'm impatient to

Let us know what you decide

:twisted: Fierce

jarman · 12-01-2006, 04:54 AM

Thanks guys, really appreciate the pointers...

I've decided on doing a bit more research before going through with anything. I thought I had a fairly good handle on things, but I want to brush up a bit more.

Let me know if you can think of anything that would be crucial to the knowledge of a newbie

10-01-2006, 05:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
jarman Making Progress Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: United States Posts: 226 Rep Power:	Do you lose your gains after the completion of a cycle? I am interested in starting up my first cycle, consisting of 500mg test enanthate per week and 20-25mg dbol everyday. I am curious to whether or not you will lose all of your gains after the completion of a cycle...? People tell me that it all turns to fat...is this true?

10-01-2006, 01:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
SoulCard Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA Posts: 819 Rep Power:	...well he's right...but to answer your question...proper pct and diet and training will help ensure that you keep 80-90% of your gains... ______________________ Look Here before you ask!... http://www.musclechat.co.uk/search.php Steroid Sticky Here... http://musclechat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4464

10-01-2006, 08:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
SoulCard Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA Posts: 819 Rep Power:	IMHO go 12 weeks, not 10 on the test...how much dbol per day you planning on? PCT stands for Post Cycle Therapy...a course of treatment that will hasten your bodies recovery to normal after using exogeneous test whily your body is producing none... Clomid and nolva are very different drugs and do very different things and are used for different reasons...better spend some more time figuring that part out... ...start your pct for your cycle 14 days after your last application (injection) of test E... ______________________ Look Here before you ask!... http://www.musclechat.co.uk/search.php Steroid Sticky Here... http://musclechat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4464

10-01-2006, 09:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
finephysique Making Progress Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 142 Rep Power:	Muscle cannot turn to fat just as fat cannot turn to muscle just like you cannot turn water into wine (except Jesus) they are two totally different substances, you may lose quite a bit of weight post cycle but if your diet and PCT are right then this weight will be mainly water weight ______________________ I do it all in the name of science Moderator @ www.the-darkside-uk.com Site rep @ www.musclechemistry.com

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10-01-2006, 03:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
Andy1981iron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hull Posts: 833 Rep Power:	This was his intro... Hey, no problem, whatever helps, I am 21 and have been training seriously since I was 16. When I first started training I was bone thin, weighing in at 130 lbs. at 5'5". I am now about 5'8 at roughly 155 lbs. I train heavy and always use proper form (I have confirmed this with multiple personal trainers in my gym). My diet consists of between 6-7 meals daily (including 2 protein shakes). I eat more than my friends can believe, and each of them weighs a good fifty lbs. more than me, haha. Daily caloric intake is roughly 4,000 calories and I am a big fan of egg whites, double hamburgers, steak hoagies (double steak), vegetables, chocolate or strawberry milkshakes, almonds, toast lathered in heavy amts of peanut butter, tuna, ect. I stay sure I don't exceed 2 1/2 hours without some source of a high-calorie meal containing 35-40 grams of protein. My gains came to a stop about 9 months ago, and I am unable to exceed a max of 215lbs on a flat bench, 235 on squat, and 225 on deadlift, and can't put on an ounce for the life of me . I do NO cardio in fear that I will burn needed calories. I've decided that gear may in fact be the only way I can achieve the kind of results I have in mind. Does this help at all...? 155 at 5ft 8in. You could put at least another 20 lbs on naturally yet, eat more! Gear is not the answer....food is! Could you please post your routine? As it's possible you could be overtraining.

10-01-2006, 06:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
reef Under Construction Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 95 Rep Power:	Something is definitely wrong there, after 5 years serious training I would be expecting more than around 100kg for squat/deadlifts. The bench seems about right, as ~100kg is a relatively good lift for 5 years, but If training properly with a good routine, squat and deadlift should be much higher. At the end of the day, at 5ft 8 and 155lbs, if someone isnt gaining at least a little, then either diet or routine is a fault. In this case, I am betting its a combination of both. If you cant gain naturally, you wont keep much on gear.

10-01-2006, 08:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
jarman Making Progress Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: United States Posts: 226 Rep Power:	I was planning to run test enanthate for 10 weeks and the dbol for 4 as a kickstart (I have to credit the pointers on dosages to caymen) Okay, tell me where I'm wrong on my answers to your questions fiercefrets, because I may need slight alterations... pros & cons of injectables/orals - injectables are preferred to oral as they are not as hard on the liver being that your body is not forced to sort through them within a 24 hour period (as it is with orals); however, orals offer quicker results because they enter your system faster. With injectables, there is also a risk of infection. okay, here we go, I didn't know what PCT was, but now I see that this helps you to maintain gains after completion of a cycle? Not sure how long to wait between the time of your last injection and the start of PCT tho. I believe Nolvadex(tamoxifen) and clomid are used to counteract gyno by competing for the estrogen receptors? HCG- (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin) - used to stimulate testicular descent, growth & development. Helps to kickstart your natural produc. of test. If your nipples start to itch, this is an initial sign that gyno is underway. To counteract this, one should ALWAYS have some nolva or clomid on hand. I believe a drugs "half-life" is the amount of time that it remains in your bloodstream? D-bol stays in your system for up to 6 hours. Test enanthate stays in your sys for 4-5 days? I have done a lot of reading on this stuff, guess the prob was that I was unfamiliar with PCT. Thnx

11-01-2006, 05:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
FierceFrets Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Posts: 704 Rep Power:	Hey Jarman, Good stuff matey, well on your way The other guys are right too though, about you having natural potential left, but i know how you feel! I'm impatient to Let us know what you decide :twisted: Fierce

12-01-2006, 04:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
jarman Making Progress Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: United States Posts: 226 Rep Power:	Thanks guys, really appreciate the pointers... I've decided on doing a bit more research before going through with anything. I thought I had a fairly good handle on things, but I want to brush up a bit more. Let me know if you can think of anything that would be crucial to the knowledge of a newbie