d-bol as a supplement

crazycal1 · 16-09-2005, 11:56 PM

PLEASE GIVE YOUR OPINIONS-THIS IS WHAT I`M CONSIDERING:

This article was originally intended to be a history of the anabolic steroid dianabol and it's usage in bodybuilding, but there is little real evidence of how it was used in previous decades. However, in the course of research, I have come to the conclusion that current use of dianabol as a supplement is not as efficient as it could be. Most of the modern thoughts on dianabol use reflect around myths and irrelevant scientific studies; this article attempts to explain new ways of thinking on dianabol usage using scientific evidence and people's experiences.
Dianabol (or dbol as it's commonly called) is one of the most commonly used oral steroids. Its chemical name is methanedienone or methandrostenolone and there are many different pharmaceutical and generic varieties including Anabol and Naposim. In this article we look at lower dose usage of dianabol as a supplement, as opposed to using pro-hormones or pro-steroids.
Liver Toxicity of Dianabol
The 17 alpha-alkylated properties of methanedienone do make it liver toxic, but this, I believe, is overstated as most of the evidence of its toxicity comes from studies on individuals and not from studies on large groups of dianabol-using bodybuilders. One study on rats (1) showed that regardless of dose or time of administration, dianabol produces changes in enzymatic activity, which leads to hypertrophy of hepatocytes; which basically shows that dianabol is toxic to the liver. But in another study (2) Nerobol (Russian Dianabol) was found to favour a rapid normalisation of functional and metabolic disorders of the liver, which contradicts the earlier evidence. This shows that the whole idea of dianabol being dangerous is in no way as bad as some would make out.
Benefits of Dianabol Use
Dianabol has been shown to increase anaerobic glycolysis (3), which increases lactic acid build up in the body. This is beneficial because lactic acid is used by the muscles to form glycogen, which in turn provides energy in anaerobic metabolism. Lactic acid is also a key chemical in the disposal of dietary carbohydrates, which means you are less likely to get fat while using dianabol.
A study on osteoporosis (4) showed that at a dosage of just 2.5mg per day for 9 months dianabol was more effective than calcium supplementation in reducing osteoporotic activity, it was also shown to increase muscle mass more effectively. Another study on osteoporosis (5) which lasted 24 months, showed just how dianabol works on osteoporosis; dianabol increased total body calcium, and also total body potassium. This may not mean much to you as a bodybuilder, but the actions of calcium are very important to bodybuilders, as it transports large numbers of amino acids and also creatine and these two things are vital in muscle growth. Potassium is also very important, as it assists in muscle contractions, transmitting nerve signals, and insulin release; so it is also a very anabolic substance.
One very interesting study (6), although not significant in bodybuilding terms, showed that dianabol increases the sensitivity of laryngeal tumour cells to radiotherapy, and concluded 'recommending this hormone to be used during radiotherapy of patients with the laryngeal cancer'.
How to Cycle Dianabol
To create a cycle for dianabol that is based around using it more as a supplement than a steroid, we first need to look at the current trend for cycling dianabol and analyse what is wrong with it. An average cycle of Dianabol is usually structured as 25-40mg split throughout each day for 4-6 weeks, either alone or stacked with other steroids.
Firstly a dose of 25mg or more commonly causes water retention. It is well known that dianabol does aromatise quite easily, and most of the water retention is usually attributed to a build up of excess estrogen. However, it is my belief that initially water retention is caused by the body holding on to water due to the effects of dianabol on the body's mineral balance, in particular the potassium/sodium balance. This coupled with the fact that dianabol cause estrogenic side effects, leads to a lot of water build-up, and as there is little we can do about the change in the bodies mineral balance, the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen) or other anti-estrogens. This is not the only method though, by reducing the dose, less of the drug will aromatise, which leads to less estrogen and more importantly less water retention. Reducing the drug during a cycle would lead to estrogen levels dropping slowly, so we should start the cycle with a lower dose of 10-20mg each day.
Splitting the dosage when you are using a low dose is virtually pointless, as you will get a much smaller peak of the drug. So in this case it is best to take it in a single dose in the morning (preferably with grapefruit juice). Although this will not prevent suppression of natural testosterone, it may lessen it to a certain degree, as your body will still have lengthy periods later in the day when there is little testosterone circulating, and so it may still produce some.
Now if we look at cycle duration, 4-6 weeks seems too short to have any real effect at a low dose, but how can we use dianabol for longer without placing more risk on our liver? The solution is actually quite simple; by taking weekends off from the drug we will give our livers a break from processing the drug. Due to the short half-life any active substances will be out of our system within 24 hours of your last dose, now this may seem like it will cost you gains, but in actual fact it will cost you little or no losses in the long run as even though there is no active drug in the body the effects are still present i.e. extra intramuscular water, and a more anabolic mineral balance. These effects usually taper off over several days. This method will not however, help your natural testosterone to return from its inhibited state, as this process can take considerably longer. If we take weekends off and use a lower dose, we should in theory be able to use dianabol for 10 weeks with no problems. A simple bit of mathematics can show this point best:

6 weeks @25mg each day = 1050mg of Dianabol in total
10 weeks with weekends off @15mg each day = 750mg of Dianabol in total
So as you can see, by using this system your liver will actually process less dianabol than in a conventional cycle, add this to the fact that you can make gains for 10 weeks instead of 6, and with fewer side effects, and you get a very solid cycle.
Summary
This Cycle Theory can be applied in many different situations, for instance a beginner could use the dianabol on it's own for 10 weeks and gain very well. A more experienced steroid user could use this alongside an injectable cycle for very good gains too, getting the benefit of the initial quick gains of the Dianabol, with the slower but stronger gains of an injectable.
This cycle may seem to go against many of the current trends of dianabol use, but I believe that by using dianabol as a supplement to good training and nutrition you can make very good gains.
References

Effects of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity. Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG.
An experimental study of the hepatoprotective properties of phytoecdysteroids and Nerobol in carbon tetrachloride induce liver lesions. Syrov VN, Khushbaktova ZA, Nabiev AN.
Effects of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells. Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak Iu.
Calcium, vitamin D and anabolic steroid treatment of aged bones: double-blind placebo-controlled long-term clinical trial. Inkovaara J, Gothoni G, Halttula R, Heikinheimo R, Tokola O.
Changes in body composition following therapy of osteoporosis with methandrostenolone. Mann V, Benko AB, Kocsar LT.
Radiomodifying effect of methandrostenolone on laryngeal cancer cells. Bordiushkov IuN, Kucherova TI, Kisliakova ND, Vagner VP, Zubkova TV.
Warning! Articles related to the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs are for information purposes only and are the sole expressions of the individual authors opinion. We do not promote the use of these substances and the information contained within this publication is not intended to persuade or encourage the use or possession of illegal substances. These substances should be used only under the advice and supervision of a qualified, licensed physician.

SoulCard · 17-09-2005, 12:25 AM

hmmm...interesting read...i would still be concerned with shut down aspect as well as i wonder about takin weekends off with the short half life of dbol...almost lilke starting over each monday to me...i can see including this as part of a cycle with test, but would be cautious bout running it by itself....most people use dbol cause it acts quickly so they get quick results...that is why i like prop...better and faster results w/o the water gain...just my .02...

crazycal1 · 17-09-2005, 01:20 AM

i hear what you`re sayin`,but i`m not after quick results-more of a boost(for now)-i`ve put on 7lb`s in 6 months with progressive training in compound exercises -i suppose i just want to keep it going-i should have more patience-if i had the money i`d start with anavar&andriol-i`m trying to find a cheaper way to get similar gains-i was going to get some clomid as well -more of a standby.needles freak me out-although i reckon i could cope jabbing a muscle(****ing hate smackheads)(i mean really)it`s the aspirating that i`d have a problem with-been looking after a diabetic dog for practice

SoulCard · 17-09-2005, 01:36 AM

i hear ya...ive done a deca only cycle (bad idea) and a dbol only cycle (worse idea) i even did a deca and dbol cycle (worst idea) which i was able to salvage at the end with bout 3 weeks of prop...since then i am hooked on prop...it is the best!...if you dont have anyone to stick you, the first time is a little wierd...it took me a while to work up to doin my own sticks but once you get used to it it is really easy...and is deffinately the better way to go for long term gains that stick around...

crazycal1 · 17-09-2005, 12:53 PM

what`s prop?

ops: -what part of usa r u from-if u dont mind me askin`-nice one for the input! 8)

zx9rjas. · 17-09-2005, 01:22 PM

He's telking about testosterone propionate, an ester of testosterone.

I prefer prop too, as mood is generally better, I was a miserable sod using enanthate.

Prop is good for cutting or bulking, wheras some esters aren't

J

crazycal1 · 17-09-2005, 02:54 PM

just did a quick search on prop-what`s the score with test suppositories? :shock:

SoulCard · 17-09-2005, 03:32 PM

never heard of test suppositories...prop is injectable and is honestly my personal fav...if i had my choice, i would much rather inject than suppositories 8) 8)

crazycal1 · 17-09-2005, 03:46 PM

yahoo search

2nd one down) What athletes dislike most about propionate are the frequent injections that are necessary.

As for frequent injections: The Testosterone Berco Suppositories by the German company Funke can help. This is quite an un-usual testosterone compound since these are suppositories. The suppositories contain 40 mg Testosterone propionate and are in-troduced into the body through the rectum. This form of intake also has an additional advantage. The substance Testosterone pro-pionate is reabsorbed very rapidly through the intestine. For a package with 18 suppositories the price on the black market is about $35.
not often that i`d admit that i would prefer to take it up the bum,but it still sounds better than a little prick!

ops:

SoulCard · 17-09-2005, 03:58 PM

nahh...use 25 ga pins and you dont even feel it go in...but prop itself does hurt as it disperses and lots of people dont like the every day or every other day application...no pain no gain man...you will get to the point where you look forward to it...

16-09-2005, 11:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
crazycal1 Illuminati Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 2,867 Rep Power:	d-bol as a supplement PLEASE GIVE YOUR OPINIONS-THIS IS WHAT I`M CONSIDERING: This article was originally intended to be a history of the anabolic steroid dianabol and it's usage in bodybuilding, but there is little real evidence of how it was used in previous decades. However, in the course of research, I have come to the conclusion that current use of dianabol as a supplement is not as efficient as it could be. Most of the modern thoughts on dianabol use reflect around myths and irrelevant scientific studies; this article attempts to explain new ways of thinking on dianabol usage using scientific evidence and people's experiences. Dianabol (or dbol as it's commonly called) is one of the most commonly used oral steroids. Its chemical name is methanedienone or methandrostenolone and there are many different pharmaceutical and generic varieties including Anabol and Naposim. In this article we look at lower dose usage of dianabol as a supplement, as opposed to using pro-hormones or pro-steroids. Liver Toxicity of Dianabol The 17 alpha-alkylated properties of methanedienone do make it liver toxic, but this, I believe, is overstated as most of the evidence of its toxicity comes from studies on individuals and not from studies on large groups of dianabol-using bodybuilders. One study on rats (1) showed that regardless of dose or time of administration, dianabol produces changes in enzymatic activity, which leads to hypertrophy of hepatocytes; which basically shows that dianabol is toxic to the liver. But in another study (2) Nerobol (Russian Dianabol) was found to favour a rapid normalisation of functional and metabolic disorders of the liver, which contradicts the earlier evidence. This shows that the whole idea of dianabol being dangerous is in no way as bad as some would make out. Benefits of Dianabol Use Dianabol has been shown to increase anaerobic glycolysis (3), which increases lactic acid build up in the body. This is beneficial because lactic acid is used by the muscles to form glycogen, which in turn provides energy in anaerobic metabolism. Lactic acid is also a key chemical in the disposal of dietary carbohydrates, which means you are less likely to get fat while using dianabol. A study on osteoporosis (4) showed that at a dosage of just 2.5mg per day for 9 months dianabol was more effective than calcium supplementation in reducing osteoporotic activity, it was also shown to increase muscle mass more effectively. Another study on osteoporosis (5) which lasted 24 months, showed just how dianabol works on osteoporosis; dianabol increased total body calcium, and also total body potassium. This may not mean much to you as a bodybuilder, but the actions of calcium are very important to bodybuilders, as it transports large numbers of amino acids and also creatine and these two things are vital in muscle growth. Potassium is also very important, as it assists in muscle contractions, transmitting nerve signals, and insulin release; so it is also a very anabolic substance. One very interesting study (6), although not significant in bodybuilding terms, showed that dianabol increases the sensitivity of laryngeal tumour cells to radiotherapy, and concluded 'recommending this hormone to be used during radiotherapy of patients with the laryngeal cancer'. How to Cycle Dianabol To create a cycle for dianabol that is based around using it more as a supplement than a steroid, we first need to look at the current trend for cycling dianabol and analyse what is wrong with it. An average cycle of Dianabol is usually structured as 25-40mg split throughout each day for 4-6 weeks, either alone or stacked with other steroids. Firstly a dose of 25mg or more commonly causes water retention. It is well known that dianabol does aromatise quite easily, and most of the water retention is usually attributed to a build up of excess estrogen. However, it is my belief that initially water retention is caused by the body holding on to water due to the effects of dianabol on the body's mineral balance, in particular the potassium/sodium balance. This coupled with the fact that dianabol cause estrogenic side effects, leads to a lot of water build-up, and as there is little we can do about the change in the bodies mineral balance, the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen) or other anti-estrogens. This is not the only method though, by reducing the dose, less of the drug will aromatise, which leads to less estrogen and more importantly less water retention. Reducing the drug during a cycle would lead to estrogen levels dropping slowly, so we should start the cycle with a lower dose of 10-20mg each day. Splitting the dosage when you are using a low dose is virtually pointless, as you will get a much smaller peak of the drug. So in this case it is best to take it in a single dose in the morning (preferably with grapefruit juice). Although this will not prevent suppression of natural testosterone, it may lessen it to a certain degree, as your body will still have lengthy periods later in the day when there is little testosterone circulating, and so it may still produce some. Now if we look at cycle duration, 4-6 weeks seems too short to have any real effect at a low dose, but how can we use dianabol for longer without placing more risk on our liver? The solution is actually quite simple; by taking weekends off from the drug we will give our livers a break from processing the drug. Due to the short half-life any active substances will be out of our system within 24 hours of your last dose, now this may seem like it will cost you gains, but in actual fact it will cost you little or no losses in the long run as even though there is no active drug in the body the effects are still present i.e. extra intramuscular water, and a more anabolic mineral balance. These effects usually taper off over several days. This method will not however, help your natural testosterone to return from its inhibited state, as this process can take considerably longer. If we take weekends off and use a lower dose, we should in theory be able to use dianabol for 10 weeks with no problems. A simple bit of mathematics can show this point best: 6 weeks @25mg each day = 1050mg of Dianabol in total 10 weeks with weekends off @15mg each day = 750mg of Dianabol in total So as you can see, by using this system your liver will actually process less dianabol than in a conventional cycle, add this to the fact that you can make gains for 10 weeks instead of 6, and with fewer side effects, and you get a very solid cycle. Summary This Cycle Theory can be applied in many different situations, for instance a beginner could use the dianabol on it's own for 10 weeks and gain very well. A more experienced steroid user could use this alongside an injectable cycle for very good gains too, getting the benefit of the initial quick gains of the Dianabol, with the slower but stronger gains of an injectable. This cycle may seem to go against many of the current trends of dianabol use, but I believe that by using dianabol as a supplement to good training and nutrition you can make very good gains. References Effects of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity. Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG. An experimental study of the hepatoprotective properties of phytoecdysteroids and Nerobol in carbon tetrachloride induce liver lesions. Syrov VN, Khushbaktova ZA, Nabiev AN. Effects of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells. Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak Iu. Calcium, vitamin D and anabolic steroid treatment of aged bones: double-blind placebo-controlled long-term clinical trial. Inkovaara J, Gothoni G, Halttula R, Heikinheimo R, Tokola O. Changes in body composition following therapy of osteoporosis with methandrostenolone. Mann V, Benko AB, Kocsar LT. Radiomodifying effect of methandrostenolone on laryngeal cancer cells. Bordiushkov IuN, Kucherova TI, Kisliakova ND, Vagner VP, Zubkova TV. Warning! Articles related to the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs are for information purposes only and are the sole expressions of the individual authors opinion. We do not promote the use of these substances and the information contained within this publication is not intended to persuade or encourage the use or possession of illegal substances. These substances should be used only under the advice and supervision of a qualified, licensed physician. ______________________ einsteins mind was the key to all things...to understand more than to know. www.englishmuscle.co.uk www.extremenutrition.co.uk

17-09-2005, 12:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
SoulCard Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA Posts: 819 Rep Power:	hmmm...interesting read...i would still be concerned with shut down aspect as well as i wonder about takin weekends off with the short half life of dbol...almost lilke starting over each monday to me...i can see including this as part of a cycle with test, but would be cautious bout running it by itself....most people use dbol cause it acts quickly so they get quick results...that is why i like prop...better and faster results w/o the water gain...just my .02... ______________________ Look Here before you ask!... http://www.musclechat.co.uk/search.php Steroid Sticky Here... http://musclechat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4464

17-09-2005, 01:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
crazycal1 Illuminati Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 2,867 Rep Power:	i hear what you`re sayin`,but i`m not after quick results-more of a boost(for now)-i`ve put on 7lb`s in 6 months with progressive training in compound exercises -i suppose i just want to keep it going-i should have more patience-if i had the money i`d start with anavar&andriol-i`m trying to find a cheaper way to get similar gains-i was going to get some clomid as well -more of a standby.needles freak me out-although i reckon i could cope jabbing a muscle(****ing hate smackheads)(i mean really)it`s the aspirating that i`d have a problem with-been looking after a diabetic dog for practice ______________________ einsteins mind was the key to all things...to understand more than to know. www.englishmuscle.co.uk www.extremenutrition.co.uk

17-09-2005, 01:36 AM	#4 (permalink)
SoulCard Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA Posts: 819 Rep Power:	i hear ya...ive done a deca only cycle (bad idea) and a dbol only cycle (worse idea) i even did a deca and dbol cycle (worst idea) which i was able to salvage at the end with bout 3 weeks of prop...since then i am hooked on prop...it is the best!...if you dont have anyone to stick you, the first time is a little wierd...it took me a while to work up to doin my own sticks but once you get used to it it is really easy...and is deffinately the better way to go for long term gains that stick around... ______________________ Look Here before you ask!... http://www.musclechat.co.uk/search.php Steroid Sticky Here... http://musclechat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4464

17-09-2005, 12:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
crazycal1 Illuminati Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 2,867 Rep Power:	what`s prop? ops: -what part of usa r u from-if u dont mind me askin`-nice one for the input! 8) ______________________ einsteins mind was the key to all things...to understand more than to know. www.englishmuscle.co.uk www.extremenutrition.co.uk

17-09-2005, 01:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
zx9rjas. Legend Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 697 Rep Power:	He's telking about testosterone propionate, an ester of testosterone. I prefer prop too, as mood is generally better, I was a miserable sod using enanthate. Prop is good for cutting or bulking, wheras some esters aren't J ______________________ 50% of Training is nutrition 50% of Training is not overtraining If you cant gain see the above.

17-09-2005, 02:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
crazycal1 Illuminati Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 2,867 Rep Power:	just did a quick search on prop-what`s the score with test suppositories? :shock: ______________________ einsteins mind was the key to all things...to understand more than to know. www.englishmuscle.co.uk www.extremenutrition.co.uk

17-09-2005, 03:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
SoulCard Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA Posts: 819 Rep Power:	never heard of test suppositories...prop is injectable and is honestly my personal fav...if i had my choice, i would much rather inject than suppositories 8) 8) ______________________ Look Here before you ask!... http://www.musclechat.co.uk/search.php Steroid Sticky Here... http://musclechat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4464

17-09-2005, 03:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
crazycal1 Illuminati Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 2,867 Rep Power:	yahoo search 2nd one down) What athletes dislike most about propionate are the frequent injections that are necessary. As for frequent injections: The Testosterone Berco Suppositories by the German company Funke can help. This is quite an un-usual testosterone compound since these are suppositories. The suppositories contain 40 mg Testosterone propionate and are in-troduced into the body through the rectum. This form of intake also has an additional advantage. The substance Testosterone pro-pionate is reabsorbed very rapidly through the intestine. For a package with 18 suppositories the price on the black market is about $35. not often that i`d admit that i would prefer to take it up the bum,but it still sounds better than a little prick! ops: ______________________ einsteins mind was the key to all things...to understand more than to know. www.englishmuscle.co.uk www.extremenutrition.co.uk

17-09-2005, 03:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
SoulCard Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA Posts: 819 Rep Power:	nahh...use 25 ga pins and you dont even feel it go in...but prop itself does hurt as it disperses and lots of people dont like the every day or every other day application...no pain no gain man...you will get to the point where you look forward to it... ______________________ Look Here before you ask!... http://www.musclechat.co.uk/search.php Steroid Sticky Here... http://musclechat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4464

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