Supplements while on a cycle

Bill Froog

Obviously consuming a whey protein shake is OK, but how about creatine, taurine and L-Glutamine? Especially when taking orals, would any of these put additional stress on the liver? My creatine container has a warning about not taking it if you have a history of kidney disease - should I avoid it during a cycle?

GettinSwole

taurine and glutamine are fine on cycle. i wouldn't go on cycle without taurine in fact. get off the creatine though - i mean seriously what's it doing while you're on cycle besides bloating you up w/ some water.

mgeorge

You should add some BCAA's and some milk thistle in as well. Milk thistle is good for your liver and should be taken with orals. As far as the creatine goes, I am still taking it while on, but I don't experiance any bloating like swole is refering to. But if you do then stay off it. If you really like the effects of creatine normally then why not use it while on your cycle.
MGeorge

Bill Froog

Thanks guys.
I have read elsewhere that you should only take the milk thistle *after* the cycle. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

GettinSwole

I've read this as well. There haven't been any tests conducted as to whether the use of milk thistle while on methylated compounds would decrease its efficiency. Therefore no one really knows whether or not you should take them while on cycle or not. I have started only using them PCT just b/c I have a very strong and healthy liver and feel that I will be ok waiting. Others may choose to take it while on to be safe. It's up to the individual.
I do know however that drinking 8oz of grapefruit juice while on your methyls will increase the amount of compound in the blood. I can dig up an article about it if you wanna know why.

meathead1987

I would save creatine for post cycle

Maybe start CEE on day 1 of PCT, as it kicks in immediately.

Everything else is fine on cycle. The bast liver protectants are ALA and NAC, each @ 1-1.5g a day.

spearman

GettinSwole could you dig out that artical, would be an interesting read!

Cheers

S

Bill Froog

Thanks - what's CEE?

GettinSwole

As you wish, spearman


GRAPEFRUIT JUICE AND DRUGS

HOW DOES GRAPEFRUIT JUICE AFFECT THE DRUGS I AM TAKING?

Grapefruit juice blocks cytochrome P-450 3A4 and Ia2 (CYP3A4 and CYP1A2) enzymes in your intestinal wall. Common to all living organisms, the body has evolved the cytochrome P-450 system, a superfamily of enzymes responsible for removing drugs and toxins from the body. The cytochrome P-450 3A4 subfamily, located predominantly in the liver and intestinal tract, is one of the most common enzyme systems for metabolizing drugs. Most drugs are lipid-soluble or"fat-loving", so that they are readily absorbed in your bloodstream. To eliminate these drugs, however, in the cytochrome P450 system either breaks them down in the gut or changes them in to a more water-soluble or "water-loving" version in the liver. The kidney can then eliminate them in the urine. Thus, the liver,gut, and kidney work together to prevent excessive amounts of drug and/or toxins from getting in to your bloodstream. Grapefruit juice blocks the cytochrome P450 3A4 enzyme systems in your gut. By inhibiting this defence mechanism, grapefruit juice may increase the blood levels of some drugs. Therefore, you may experience adverse effects from the drugs you are taking when taken with grapefruit juice.

WHICH SUBSTANCE IN THE GRAPEFRUIT JUICE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE INTERACTIONS WITH DRUGS?

The precise chemical nature of the substance in the grapefruit juice that inhibits gut wall CTP 3A4 enzymes is unknown. It has been suggested that flavanoids, coumarin, or psoralen derivatives in the grapefruit juice could be the inhibitors. The amount of inhibiting substance in grapefruit juice may vary by brand, concentrations and storage conditions.

I DRINK ONE GLASS OF REGULAR GRAPEFRUIT JUICE WITH BREAKFAST IN THE MORNING, WILL THIS AFFECT THE DRUGS I AM TAKING?

Yes. Regular grapefruit juice is prepared by diluting frozen grapefruit juice with normal amount of water. Double-strength grapefruit juice is prepared by diluting frozen grapefruit juice with half the normal amount of water. One glass of regular grapefruit juice is enough to significantly raise the blood levels of the number of drugs.

FOR HOW LONG DOES THE GRAPEFRUIT JUICE INHIBIT CYP 3A4?

The inhibitory effect of grapefruit juice on CYP 3A4 can last for several hours. A recent study found increased blood levels of calcium-channel blocker felodipine (Plendil) even when the drug was given 24 hours after drinking grapefruit juice.

I TAKE AN EXTENDED RELEASE PRODUCT, IS THIS ALSO AFFECTED BY GRAPEFRUIT JUICE?

Yes. Grapefruit juice increases the blood levels of extended release preparations. Recent studies have shown increased blood levels of extended release felodipine,extended release nifedipine (Adalat, Procardia) when taken with grapefruit juice.

WHICH DRUGS ARE AFFECTED BY GRAPEFRUIT JUICE AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEIR BLOOD LEVELS INCREASE?

CYP 3A4 is involved in the metabolism of many medications. When CYP 3A4 is inhibited by grapefruit juice, the blood levels of many medications may rise. Examples of drugs reported to interact are listed in the table below. Since many more drugs are likely to interact, it is important to ask your doctor or pharmacist if you drink grapefruit juice and are taking any medications.





DRUGS AFFECTED BY GRAPEFRUIT JUICE DRUGS AFFECTED BY GRAPEFRUIT JUICE

Calcium channel blockers
a) Felodipine (Plendil)

b) Nifedipine (Procardia XL, and Adalat CC)

c) Nimodipine (Nimotop)

d) Verapamil (Calan, Isoptin)

Flushing headache, increased heart rate
decreased blood pressure






Decreased heart rate, constipation,
decreased blood pressure

2. Nonsedating antihistamines
a) Terfenadine (Seldane) [currently off the market]

b) Astemizole (Hismanol)
EKG abnormalities (prolongation of QT
interval) and ventricular arrhythmias


3. Benzodiazepines
a) Alprazolam (Xanax)

b) Triazolam (Halcion)

c) Midazolam
Increased sedation







4. Cholesterol lowering drugs
Lovastatin (Mevocor)

[expect others such as Simvastatin (Zocor)
and atorvastatin (Lipitor)

Caffeine

Immunosuppressive agents

a) Cyclosporine (Sand immune and Neoral)

b) Tacrolimus (Prograf)
Headache, gastrointestinal complaints, and muscle pain.





Nervousness, over stimulation

Kidney toxicity and increased susceptibility to infections






WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND?

Avoid grapefruit juice if you are taking any of the above medications. Since many other drugs may also be affected by grapefruit juice, consult your doctor or pharmacist regarding possible interactions between your medications and grapefruit juice.

GettinSwole

As for you, Bill, CEE is Creatine Ethyl Ester.... it's a new type of creatine that is esterified for better delivery. Supposed to be 3x more potent and much better absorption.