keto diets

bulldozer

Whats everybodys opinion on keto diets? i have done a search on this forum and u guys dont seem to talk much on the subject, other forums seem to be full of stuff on keto diets.

I was toying with the idea of a keto type diet, but still having carbs with my pwo shake and my ppwo meal. which in theory shouldn't knock me out of keto right?? then maybe having a carb up day every 7 to 10 days maybe.

Are keto diets muscle sparing?? like they say!?

Neil R

Most competitors pre-contest diets are Ketogenic, however the level of carbs that can be taken in and still remain in ketosis varies from individual to individual. On average 1gram per Kilo bodyweight per day will be the level, but their will be variations; some many need 1gram per lb of bodyweight so it might be best to use that as a starting point and see how you go for a week or two. So if you only have, say 50g carbs PWO shake & 50g in PWO meal, you'll still remian in ketosis as this is a time when the body craves for the carbs and shutttles them into the muscle cells with a much lesser insulin response than at any other time of day. However, depending on your metabolism I would have a carb up meal (i.e 4grams/lb bodyweight) at least once a week. Leaving it 7-10 days could be too long and you can risk metabolising muscle to rectify the calorie deficit. Not carbing up frequently enough was one of THE biggest mistakes i made getting ready for the Englands, Uni & UK this year & as a result I looked pretty crap onstage. So try learn from my mistakes, so you don't have to make them yourself.

The main advantages of ketogenic diets are:-
1- They are very good at appetite suppresion
2- Over short periods they are muscle sparing as your body metabolises the ketones for energy instead of muscle....however, too much of a good thing 'an all that!!

Good luck

razg

No doubt they are effective to a reasonable degree. However with that said, I do not believe they promote fat loss at maximum rate possible. Another concern is that ketones as a primary energy source upsets the acid/base balance of your body. In a nutshell, this can cause problems with mineral deficiencies, and worse, can cause the body to leech calcium from the bones to correct the pH - a major concern for those wishing to keep strong bones!

IMO the most effective form of diet is something around isocaloric (equal calories coming from each macronutrient group) - although people vary quite significantly, this generally proves effective.

Nick500

So for me a carb up meal would contain 840 grams of carbs?? Surely not...



Nick

Neil R

No. I actually meant a carb up DAY !!

Even i'd struggle to scoff that much in one meal and i have one helluva appetite.
Most I've done in one meal was 400grams....and I felt like buddha afterwards, plus spent about an hour on the toilet !! :?

bulldozer

If i was to try a keto diet is guessing supplementing with calcium would be a good idea then, any other vitamins or minerals i should consider while on keto? i take a multi vit and extra vit c at tho mo.

Thanks for your advice neil, much appreciated mate

Neil R

Depends on the Multi vit in question. For example Centrum will do very little, unless your poppin' about 6 of them babies a day!
Solgars VM75 or V2000 however would be ideal.

With regards to the calcium question, that is a slightly over-exaggerated argument used by the people agains ketogenic diets. Yes it CAN affect ph levels, if you are in ketosis too long and their is a small leaching of bone calcium levels; however if you include green vegetables and low fat cheese in your diet then the overall effect is negligible.

One thing about ketogenic diets is that, contrary to previously stated, they are actually a guarenteed way of knowing you are burning bodyfat as ketones or only produced when fat is metabolised.
Fatty acids break down into glycerol, ketones and water. Neither Carbs nor protein produce ketones. Also the use of ketones as an energy sourse is far more preferential than using proteins which is a problem with isocalorific diets as protien is metaobolised into ammonia which definately does leach bone calcium deposits and is far more difficult to rectify through dietary manipulation as it is an indicator of the onset of lactic acidosis....which is V bad indeed!!

bulldozer

Your a top man neil !! Thanks mate.

im gonna get to work on designing a keto diet and give it a go.

Im currently 213lbs at about 21% b/f. so if my maths are right that means i got a lean body mass of 168 lbs. i have read on other forums that multiplying your LBM by 15 is a good starting point for your daily calories while on keto. so that would give me 2520 calories a day.
Whats your opinion on that? i would keep heathly fats at 50% and have atleast 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. Would have plenty of veggies and salad a day.

I weight train 3 times a week, short abbreviated sessions and do atleast 7 hours walking a week. so my activity level is moderate i guess.

At 2520 calories a day i would definately be in a caloric deficit, do u think that is enough calories?

once again, Really appreciate your help

razg

I disagree. Given the fact we cannot rebuild our calcium stores, I do consider it a big deal.

I also disagree with your second paragraph. The glycerol obtained through lipolysis is insufficient to provide tissues such as the brain with enough glucose to function - now assume we don't have any dietary carbohydrates - there's only one source left - breakdown of proteins. I think your comment regarding isocaloric diets is pretty bizarre.

Young Gun

I have a solution. Who has tried both keto diets and isocaloric. What were the results.

Also I don't give a toss about minor dietary points like leeching of calcium or too much protein is bad for the liver etc... Most people eat fast food and drink all there lives. I eat vegetables 3/4 times a day drink huge amounts of water take various health supplements and exercise extremely regularly, I'm going to be ok.

Yes bulldozer as a rough estimate that seems about a good figure (Calories). Maybe slightly low.