Overtraining or not??

Getting bigger · 05-10-2006, 03:12 PM

Hmm busy little bee asking you all these questions; I thank you in advance; I have searched but not been able to find the answer I require.

Soo; I am entering the 10th week now on my return to bb and felt due for a change in routine, I am now only working one body part per day but different parts of it. i.e. pecs: incline/decline/flat etc. I am trying to get in around 25 sets per day but have thought I may be able to visit the gym twiice a day, so question is

A: Is twice a day really cracked up to be what it is? different groups of course.

B: If say Monday I only did upper chest and did it really hard so it was really throbbing the following day. What then if the following day I decided to try doing lower chest thus not hitting exactly the same body part but one very very close to it. Yes or No (my guess is you will say NO)

Thanks

GB

crazycal1 · 05-10-2006, 03:18 PM

25 sets is over training mate-
i`m assuming youre not on gear!

Getting bigger · 05-10-2006, 04:26 PM

No, but am hyper when in the gym, now eating huge amounts again and enjoying good quality supps.

You say 25 is to many; with a selection of say 6 different methods of hitting the pec area, and I do mean hitting it; that is only 4 sets per technique, I usually run of 3 sets of 8-15 with medium weight to start for warming up purposes; I have noticed dramatic gains and serious discomfort as well but recovery time is good 48 - 72 hours generally.

Many thanks

GB

Squatty · 05-10-2006, 04:35 PM

I agree with Cal mate. Do you do six different chest exercises each chest workout?I'm interested in what others think but I would have thought that 4 sets of flat, 4 sets of inclines, 4 sets of declines and 4 sets of flyes would be ample. As you've not long started training again, "dramatic gains" are to be expected and are great but I would be careful of burnout.

Young Gun · 05-10-2006, 04:58 PM

I'm a high set guy myself mate but you are overtraining by a long way. You hit a big muscle group 4 twelve sets after 2 warm ups and thats more than enough for anyone.

wigz · 05-10-2006, 05:35 PM

you will get better gains if you lower the sets and up the intensity, 12 sets is easily enough for chest

Getting bigger · 05-10-2006, 06:04 PM

Many thanks; 12 it is then. Will run with a maximum of twelve per body part to maximum weights and monitor carefully.

Back today was 18 sets and it is sore, shant touch it now for a week so it can recover. Trouble is I have been growing again like crazy, down from a 36 waist to 32 and chest up from 41 to 44, arms have flown on. I suppose it has a lot to do with muscle memory from a decade ago. Its a real sticky problem really, the gains have been superb, weight up 15 pounds in the 8 to 10 weeks with fat down from 26% to 15%, currently at 185 pounds with a target of 200 by Christmas, I intend to peak at 210 and then start cutting back to 185 or thereabouts. I have not ruled out having a pop at competing in a local Master comp in 2 years time, I will be 53 then and well, why the hell not.

I am so over enthusiastic that unless I get to complete failure and get some assisted reps in with a partner I feel disappointed in myself, and if I have no discomfort 24 to 48 hours later I don’t think have worked hard enough.

Your advice and help is taken firmly on the chin; you, after all are the experts.

GB

mrdeadlifter · 06-10-2006, 07:47 PM

hi GB and glad to hear you have that enthusiasm of the rediscovery. its great aint it?

like the other chaps, i'd advocate going a bit easier. much of that initial growth will be a flood of fluids into the muscles to respond to the unusual shock of hammering them a bit. they overcompensate for that sudden stirring of the bones and respond in kind. the trouble is that once beyond that initial shock, the adaptation becomes more and more efficient and fine tuned. A little of that fluid will be lost once more as your body adapts to the new demands. most bodies simply tend towards not growing a great deal as the body wants to supply as little tissue as possible with nutrients, blood etc. the bodies objective as an entity is self-preservation as opposed to growth.

if you keep up that intensity for long, you may well suffer some sort of physical problems in the form of tendonitis or even strains/tears at the sharp end. i don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but just encourage you to temper it with a little foresight - think long term.

i would advocate less work but perhaps slightly heavier weights. rafts of sets is taking your muscle well into aerobic work which is not going to stimulate growth and in long term may hamper it (in my view) - especially if you are not 'assisted' (by chemical means). for most of my time i've been a natural, for me a simple regime that focussed on core movements provided the most gains. for chest i would have done 7 sets decline dbbp and 7 sets weighted dips finishing with some flies if i was feeling chipper – that’s just me but I would nuke myself on that. everyones body is different and so there is no expert better than yourself to judge what your body likes and responds to, but certainly there are some broad rules that apply: overwork is never productive long term in musclebuilding.

your objective of reaching 200lbs by xmas may be unrealistic - even with perfect diet and perfect training, those sorts of gains are usually only expected on a very impressive drug/diet/training regime and/or a first cycle with all of said.

as a natural, the diet is key. slight overeating means slightly fat. slightly undereating means slightly smaller... slightly wrong diet can mean a whole lot of stuff.

if someone is clinically underweight, the upswing in weight gain may be spectacular & fast but during regular training its a different story for most.

all the best and stick in there!

Canadianguy · 18-10-2006, 09:14 PM

ill have to agree, 25 sets on just chest is alot. i usually do 12- 16 depending on the day.

Some days could be more, depending on the body part. My shoulder day is easily 16 sets + sometimes, including traps. 5 presses, 3 side laterals, 2-3 front laterals, rear laterals ( 3-4 ) and 3-4 shrugs ( traps). but theres more to hit with ur shoulders, cuz of traps and such.

crazycal1 · 18-10-2006, 09:30 PM

if it works for you thats cool mate-
but!
its not necessary to hit a muscle from all the angles to grow-
that one point stopped me progressing for years!

i do 1 exercise per body part-
5 sets max-
add weight to the bar every week-
simple!

05-10-2006, 03:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
Getting bigger Under Construction Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 49 Rep Power:	Overtraining or not?? Hmm busy little bee asking you all these questions; I thank you in advance; I have searched but not been able to find the answer I require. Soo; I am entering the 10th week now on my return to bb and felt due for a change in routine, I am now only working one body part per day but different parts of it. i.e. pecs: incline/decline/flat etc. I am trying to get in around 25 sets per day but have thought I may be able to visit the gym twiice a day, so question is A: Is twice a day really cracked up to be what it is? different groups of course. B: If say Monday I only did upper chest and did it really hard so it was really throbbing the following day. What then if the following day I decided to try doing lower chest thus not hitting exactly the same body part but one very very close to it. Yes or No (my guess is you will say NO) Thanks GB

05-10-2006, 03:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
crazycal1 Illuminati Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 2,911 Rep Power:	25 sets is over training mate- i`m assuming youre not on gear! ______________________ einsteins mind was the key to all things...to understand more than to know. www.englishmuscle.co.uk www.extremenutrition.co.uk

18-10-2006, 09:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
crazycal1 Illuminati Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 2,911 Rep Power:	if it works for you thats cool mate- but! its not necessary to hit a muscle from all the angles to grow- that one point stopped me progressing for years! i do 1 exercise per body part- 5 sets max- add weight to the bar every week- simple! ______________________ einsteins mind was the key to all things...to understand more than to know. www.englishmuscle.co.uk www.extremenutrition.co.uk

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05-10-2006, 04:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
Getting bigger Under Construction Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 49 Rep Power:	No, but am hyper when in the gym, now eating huge amounts again and enjoying good quality supps. You say 25 is to many; with a selection of say 6 different methods of hitting the pec area, and I do mean hitting it; that is only 4 sets per technique, I usually run of 3 sets of 8-15 with medium weight to start for warming up purposes; I have noticed dramatic gains and serious discomfort as well but recovery time is good 48 - 72 hours generally. Many thanks GB

05-10-2006, 04:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Squatty Legend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: www.counselling-for-men.co.uk Posts: 651 Rep Power:	I agree with Cal mate. Do you do six different chest exercises each chest workout?I'm interested in what others think but I would have thought that 4 sets of flat, 4 sets of inclines, 4 sets of declines and 4 sets of flyes would be ample. As you've not long started training again, "dramatic gains" are to be expected and are great but I would be careful of burnout.

05-10-2006, 04:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Young Gun Illuminati Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,539 Rep Power:	I'm a high set guy myself mate but you are overtraining by a long way. You hit a big muscle group 4 twelve sets after 2 warm ups and thats more than enough for anyone.

05-10-2006, 05:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
wigz Making Progress Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Manchester Posts: 429 Rep Power:	you will get better gains if you lower the sets and up the intensity, 12 sets is easily enough for chest

05-10-2006, 06:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
Getting bigger Under Construction Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 49 Rep Power:	Many thanks; 12 it is then. Will run with a maximum of twelve per body part to maximum weights and monitor carefully. Back today was 18 sets and it is sore, shant touch it now for a week so it can recover. Trouble is I have been growing again like crazy, down from a 36 waist to 32 and chest up from 41 to 44, arms have flown on. I suppose it has a lot to do with muscle memory from a decade ago. Its a real sticky problem really, the gains have been superb, weight up 15 pounds in the 8 to 10 weeks with fat down from 26% to 15%, currently at 185 pounds with a target of 200 by Christmas, I intend to peak at 210 and then start cutting back to 185 or thereabouts. I have not ruled out having a pop at competing in a local Master comp in 2 years time, I will be 53 then and well, why the hell not. I am so over enthusiastic that unless I get to complete failure and get some assisted reps in with a partner I feel disappointed in myself, and if I have no discomfort 24 to 48 hours later I don’t think have worked hard enough. Your advice and help is taken firmly on the chin; you, after all are the experts. GB

06-10-2006, 07:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
mrdeadlifter Under Construction Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 39 Rep Power:	hi GB and glad to hear you have that enthusiasm of the rediscovery. its great aint it? like the other chaps, i'd advocate going a bit easier. much of that initial growth will be a flood of fluids into the muscles to respond to the unusual shock of hammering them a bit. they overcompensate for that sudden stirring of the bones and respond in kind. the trouble is that once beyond that initial shock, the adaptation becomes more and more efficient and fine tuned. A little of that fluid will be lost once more as your body adapts to the new demands. most bodies simply tend towards not growing a great deal as the body wants to supply as little tissue as possible with nutrients, blood etc. the bodies objective as an entity is self-preservation as opposed to growth. if you keep up that intensity for long, you may well suffer some sort of physical problems in the form of tendonitis or even strains/tears at the sharp end. i don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but just encourage you to temper it with a little foresight - think long term. i would advocate less work but perhaps slightly heavier weights. rafts of sets is taking your muscle well into aerobic work which is not going to stimulate growth and in long term may hamper it (in my view) - especially if you are not 'assisted' (by chemical means). for most of my time i've been a natural, for me a simple regime that focussed on core movements provided the most gains. for chest i would have done 7 sets decline dbbp and 7 sets weighted dips finishing with some flies if i was feeling chipper – that’s just me but I would nuke myself on that. everyones body is different and so there is no expert better than yourself to judge what your body likes and responds to, but certainly there are some broad rules that apply: overwork is never productive long term in musclebuilding. your objective of reaching 200lbs by xmas may be unrealistic - even with perfect diet and perfect training, those sorts of gains are usually only expected on a very impressive drug/diet/training regime and/or a first cycle with all of said. as a natural, the diet is key. slight overeating means slightly fat. slightly undereating means slightly smaller... slightly wrong diet can mean a whole lot of stuff. if someone is clinically underweight, the upswing in weight gain may be spectacular & fast but during regular training its a different story for most. all the best and stick in there!

18-10-2006, 09:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
Canadianguy Under Construction Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 98 Rep Power:	ill have to agree, 25 sets on just chest is alot. i usually do 12- 16 depending on the day. Some days could be more, depending on the body part. My shoulder day is easily 16 sets + sometimes, including traps. 5 presses, 3 side laterals, 2-3 front laterals, rear laterals ( 3-4 ) and 3-4 shrugs ( traps). but theres more to hit with ur shoulders, cuz of traps and such.