A lot of questions: Shoulders....routines and broadnesd....

thanutz

Hi every1,

Sorry if this sort of topic has been brought up alot but im fairly new to the forum. It will be long read so sorry.

Ive been trainign on and off for 4 years....but i only have been takign really seriosuly in the last year and have noticed some real gains...however recently been stuck in a rut.

My shoulders arent getting much stronger and i think its the rear shoulders rather than the front ones cos preciously when dumbell shoulder press was my main compound excercise i was doing it with 30 on each arm...which i think is quite good for me... But the last few times i have been trainign shoulders ive been really stuggling and it really is hurting when doing raises behind my neck with a smith machine...so much so im not lidfting f all.... So i need some excercises to really concentrate that rear shoulder muscle and strengthen it....
I also want my shoulders to be a tad broader...

I wont be building much longer i have few goals...slightly bigger and benching solid sets of 100 and then ill really cut hard.... Below is my routine any advcie would be much appreciated to help me reach my goal:

Typical day: (whey has 23g of protein per scoop) i weigh 11.7-9 stone
Breakfast: 2 eggs (boiled) 2 slices of toast
Brunch: 2 scoops protein shake (sometime brunch is at breakfast due to time contraints)
Lunch:2 sanwiches one with tuna (about 3/4 can) and one witrh chicken (1/2 breast)
Pre Gym snack: energy bar + sometimes banana
After gym: 2 scoop protein
Dinner: can of tuna broccoli n bolide veg or chicken vbreast

Gym: 6 day split...yusually go gym 5 times a week and sometime extend weekend workout so i can fit it all in. Abs every day involving leg raises crunches weighted twist. Warm up of 5-10 min boxing and wlaking 2 the gym + stretchin and cool down 10 mins boxing

Day1: shoulders: 3-4 sets 6-8 reps
Smith raise behind neckl
shioulder press
shrugs
barbell raise to neck
barbell behind neck raise

Day2: Bicep
Standing curl
preahcer curl
seated dumbell curl
hammer curl
pull downs/chin ups

Day 3 chest:
Bench press
Inclien press(dumbell)
Decline press (dumbell)
fly(dumbell)
crossover

Day 4 Tris:
Weighted dips
Weighed bench dips
skull crushers
pull downs

Day 5: Back
Weighted Pull ups
Deadlifts
Arm raises
lateral row/tbar row
one other excercise i cant rmember name

Day 6: Leg
Squat
Calf raises
Leg pushes

Thanks Guys

Anil

rourkchris

You are overtrained!!!! Your shoulders are overworked to the point that you are now losing size/strength and probably feel lethargic and don't want to train. At the very least you have reached a plateau and won't make any gains until your body recovers. Take 2 weeks off from the gym and eat more protien. Cut back to 3 days a week. Don't do pressing movements every time. You are just begging for a shoulder injury with you current routine. Try doing all upper body pressing movements on Monday(chest, shoulders, and triceps), legs on Wedensday, and upper body pulling movements on Friday(back and biceps). Cut back the total number of sets and exercises.

tom84

Mate change ure days around to shoulders, tris, biceps legs, chest, back just as an example bcoz u shouldnt be training shoulders then biceps or tris then chest thats counterproductive. But as far as volume 5 or 6 short 1 hour workouts a week is fine. Take 2 weeks off hmmmm cut back to 3 days not sure I agree and u can overtrain but being in an overtrained state that takes two weeks to recover is a new 1 to me considering the bodies powers of recovery.
push and pull split is a good idea yeah but I personally know anil and he is more advanced than to work out 3 times a week lowering the volume so drastically of his routine to simple push and pull this is what id reccomend for a beginner. Personally I have already spoke to him and reckon he's undereating aside from that and switching the days around I think all that was pretty solid

divie

Hi,im in no possision to criticise or offer advice as ive only been training 3-4 months,but reading your post it seems your not eating near enougth especially considering your grueling routine.I personally think you should do a little less in the gym and eat much more,just up the portions ie instead of two sandwiches have four.You do seem to have a good physique though, so you obviously know what ure doing.Its getting in to the habbit of eating regurly and the right foods (depending on your goals).Im in a plateau myself if you like read my post i sent earlier today 18th you might be able to offer me advice as i struggle with training as i train at home,my post also has my diet on thier if you want to have a look let me know what you think?(post title GAINS STOPPED WHY?)

thanutz

Hi,

thanks for all the advice...i think food is prob an issue...i read all ure posts divie but am in position to reply to ure post as im in the same issue...not going any where....

Im at university and food seems to be a majour cost which is the problem with eating good food...i could definatly eat crap 24/7 but that wouldnt help.

As for overtrainign i dont think so... im in the gym (excluding changing and stuff) for only an hour id say at most 1hr 30 when training two muscle groups.

if some one could give some excercies to ass variety to my shopulder and broaden them as to shock my muscles i would be greatful...cheers
Anil

rourkchris

The two weeks off is a great way to let your body heal completely from overtraining to the point you'll be dying to get back to the gym and get a proper workout. Also gives plenty of time to re-evaluate your training, diet, and actual goals. It's just a reccomendation. As his workout stands he's taxing his shoulders on days 1,3,and 5. Way too much. Sometimes switching back to a simple begginer's program can re-energize new growth especially from such an overtrained state. Intensity is much more result giving than volume. More than likely more total calories and total protein per day is needed.

Garry_8472

Good god the mind boggles as to were some of you guys get these training routines, do you just pluck them out of thin air.

YOU ARE OVER TRAINING listen to what the guys are saying you ask for help and when its given you ignore it.

You are a begginer you need a simple routine of basic mass builders i've been training a long time and can easy get my arm to 20" i only use 2 exercises per body part 2-3 sets of each and each body part is only trained once every 6 days.

when you train your muscle it first needs time to rest then to recover and only when this has happened completly will it grow if you train again before you are fully recovered all you are doing is breaking the muscle down again causing loss of size and strength. if you want to progress switch to the routine in the bodybuilding training forum "a good solid begginers training routine" if you dont want to make any progress stick to what you think.

As for diet when your trying to add size you need to eat as much as poss and get 1.5 grams protein and 2 grams of carbs per pound of bodyweight.

One other point pain is felt for a reason its your body telling you that you need to stop doing what your doing as it is causing injury listen to your body if an exercise causes pain change exercise train the muscle from a different angle.

If you need anything else just ask.

thanutz

Hey gary,
I was not ignoring his advice, i have so many different things from ppl in the gym on the forum and from books that its hard to find out what is right for me....sych as tarinign for no longer than hour, split sessions, rest days...etc. But i have had some time to think and reflect on what u and i think chris said.

Eating if my first problem...i will eat more simple. Im planing on make some protein bars fro wehy and oatmeal to help me eat on the go and i will eat before i go to bed/have a large shake...I prob wont build for more than a month as i dont want to get more than 12.5 stone at my goal so may bulk to 13-13.5 (am just under 12 at mo) . I will keep on the creatine.

As for trainign gonna take a few days off....i took a week off three weeks ago due to the gymn closure and was quite slack with my routine over christmas...but found i mainted more than anything..

So lets say 3 day a week Mon Wed and Fri (poss a weekend 2 for small hidden muscle groups??) with warm up cool down stretching and abs in each session

Day 1: Shoulder Bis
1 Shoulder excercise (compound need advice and cant be dumbell press)
Stand up preacher bar curl
Upright row???
Hammer Curls

Day 2: Chest Tris
Bench Press
Weighted Dips
Fly
Skull Crushers

Day 3: Back n Legs
Squats
Deadlifts
Calf Raises
T Bar Row
Leg Pushes

Any advice guys on changing what muscles im working together with things i could eat/ better excercise would be much appreciated. Especially a shoulder excercie and something taht will really widen my shoulders....

Thanks
Anil

Benji

Legs and back??

Thats Quads, hamstrings, calves, Lats, Rhomboids, Traps and lower back

and then Shoulders and biceps??

I'd say train Legs on there own add back with biceps, and train shoulders with chest

How about this?

Legs

Squats
Leg Press
Hamstring Curls
Calf Press


Back & Biceps

Chins/Lat pulldowns
Deadlift
T Bar rows
Shrugs
Stand up preacher bar curl

Chest, Shoulders & Triceps

Bench Press
Flys
Shoulder Press
Weighted Dips
Skull Crushers

thanutz

Thanks benj for ure input...i agree with what ure saying and u have layed out a good routine for me... Just a quick question...my main goals are slightly broader shouklders (not by much) ad bigger arms...so i really wanna work my tris for this. Im not too bithered about my legs (sure u have haeard that 1 b4) how can i incioporate that in my work out.? is that enough shoulders?

For all who has repied to my posts....thanks so much for all the advice i assure u im not ignoring it im taking ti all in board and giving ti carful thought and findin out what is best for me!

If i have caused any offence to any of u it was not my intention.

Thanks every1!
Anil