amatuer question

adil · 24-07-2005, 08:00 PM

I do admit my knowledge to taking supplements is very low and I have not taken any before.
I am a professional kickboxer and I currently have a training regime where im doing cardio for the first half of the week, a day rest, then weight lifting for the other half. I am currently interested in looking to purchase supplements which will both increase my body size/power but also increase my endurance work in the cardio that i do.

Is this possible though, as wont one supplement contradict the other, or can i safely be able to use a variety of supplements which can obtain both of my objectives.

I appreciate your help
Adil

redspy · 24-07-2005, 08:29 PM

For increases in power/bulk try creatine ethyl ester, 3g pre and post workout.

For increasing stamina I'd recommend citrulline malate.

razg · 24-07-2005, 11:40 PM

Not sure if this is too obvious - but during hard cardio with a lot of sweating etc, I find simple isotonics (lucozade, high5 etc) actually make a difference to my stamina. I definately feel less dehydrated/dizzy than i would just drinking water.

RaZ

Comando Tom · 25-07-2005, 12:14 AM

For an extra buzz try Taurine, (I reconmend not to use this all the time as the body gets us to the effects). Along with 200mg of caffiene for alertness and BCAAs to prevent muscle breakdown during cardio.

adil · 25-07-2005, 02:03 AM

cheers for the advice
just to break it down, redspy mentioned taking creating ester and citrulline malate, is there any harm in taking both at the same time
And what are other user opinions on them?
Cheers again for the help

Comando Tom · 25-07-2005, 02:53 AM

Never used them, but I have heard great feedback on Creatine Ethel Ester.

redspy knows his stuff, he wont give you crap advice.

redspy · 25-07-2005, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adil

cheers for the advice
just to break it down, redspy mentioned taking creating ester and citrulline malate, is there any harm in taking both at the same time
And what are other user opinions on them?
Cheers again for the help

There are no adverse events associated with taking CEE and CM together that I know of. I have taken them together and haven't encoutered any issues.

redspy · 25-07-2005, 05:15 AM

Here's a study I came across the other day regarding CM:-

Citrulline/malate promotes aerobic energy production in human exercising muscle
D Bendahan1, J P Mattei1, B Ghattas2, S Confort-Gouny1, M E Le Guern3 and P J Cozzone1
1 Centre de Rsonance Magntique Biologique et Mdicale, UMR CNRS 6612, Facult de Mdecine de la Timone, Marseille, France
2 Groupement de Recherche en Economtrie Quantitative d'Aix-Marseille, Marseille
3 Laboratoire Biocodex, 92120 Montrouge, France

Background: Previous studies have shown an antiasthenic effect of citrulline/malate (CM) but the mechanism of action at the muscular level remains unknown.

Objective: To investigate the effects of CM supplementation on muscle energetics.

Methods: Eighteen men complaining of fatigue but with no documented disease were included in the study. A rest-exercise (finger flexions)-recovery protocol was performed twice before (D-7 and D0), three times during (D3, D8, D15), and once after (D22) 15 days of oral supplementation with 6 g/day CM. Metabolism of the flexor digitorum superficialis was analysed by 31P magnetic resonance spectroscopy at 4.7 T.

Results: Metabolic variables measured twice before CM ingestion showed no differences, indicating good reproducibility of measurements and no learning effect from repeating the exercise protocol. CM ingestion resulted in a significant reduction in the sensation of fatigue, a 34% increase in the rate of oxidative ATP production during exercise, and a 20% increase in the rate of phosphocreatine recovery after exercise, indicating a larger contribution of oxidative ATP synthesis to energy production. Considering subjects individually and variables characterising aerobic function, extrema were measured after either eight or 15 days of treatment, indicating chronological heterogeneity of treatment induced changes. One way analysis of variance confirmed improved aerobic function, which may be the result of an enhanced malate supply activating ATP production from the tricarboxylic acid cycle through anaplerotic reactions.

Conclusion: The changes in muscle metabolism produced by CM treatment indicate that CM may promote aerobic energy production.

redspy · 25-07-2005, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comando Tom

For an extra buzz try Taurine, (I reconmend not to use this all the time as the body gets us to the effects). Along with 200mg of caffiene for alertness and BCAAs to prevent muscle breakdown during cardio.

Good advice there Tom. 5g of taurine pre-workout definitely helps increase energy and stamina. Caffeine is great for increasing energy and aiding fat loss, however, it does reduce the effectiveness of creatine. See the study below:-

Quote:

Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading.
Vandenberghe K, Gillis N, Van Leemputte M, Van Hecke P, Vanstapel F, Hespel P.

Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Department of Kinesiology, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Belgium.

This study aimed to compare the effects of oral creatine (Cr) supplementation with creatine supplementation in combination with caffeine (Cr+C) on muscle phosphocreatine (PCr) level and performance in healthy male volunteers (n = 9). Before and after 6 days of placebo, Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1), or Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1) + C (5 mg x kg-1 x day-1) supplementation, 31P-nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy of the gastrocnemius muscle and a maximal intermittent exercise fatigue test of the knee extensors on an isokinetic dynamometer were performed. The exercise consisted of three consecutive maximal isometric contractions and three interval series of 90, 80, and 50 maximal voluntary contractions performed with a rest interval of 2 min between the series. Muscle ATP concentration remained constant over the three experimental conditions. Cr and Cr+C increased (P < 0.05) muscle PCr concentration by 4-6%. Dynamic torque production, however, was increased by 10-23% (P < 0.05) by Cr but was not changed by Cr+C. Torque improvement during Cr was most prominent immediately after the 2-min rest between the exercise bouts. The data show that Cr supplementation elevates muscle PCr concentration and markedly improves performance during intense intermittent exercise. This ergogenic effect, however, is completely eliminated by caffeine intake.

Nick500 · 25-07-2005, 12:23 PM

red spy.... is there anything you dont know?

24-07-2005, 08:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
adil Under Construction Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 14 Rep Power:	amatuer question I do admit my knowledge to taking supplements is very low and I have not taken any before. I am a professional kickboxer and I currently have a training regime where im doing cardio for the first half of the week, a day rest, then weight lifting for the other half. I am currently interested in looking to purchase supplements which will both increase my body size/power but also increase my endurance work in the cardio that i do. Is this possible though, as wont one supplement contradict the other, or can i safely be able to use a variety of supplements which can obtain both of my objectives. I appreciate your help Adil

24-07-2005, 08:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
redspy Making Progress Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Way Out West Posts: 578 Rep Power:	For increases in power/bulk try creatine ethyl ester, 3g pre and post workout. For increasing stamina I'd recommend citrulline malate. ______________________ IronArena.com

25-07-2005, 05:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
redspy Making Progress Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Way Out West Posts: 578 Rep Power:	Here's a study I came across the other day regarding CM:- Citrulline/malate promotes aerobic energy production in human exercising muscle D Bendahan1, J P Mattei1, B Ghattas2, S Confort-Gouny1, M E Le Guern3 and P J Cozzone1 1 Centre de Rsonance Magntique Biologique et Mdicale, UMR CNRS 6612, Facult de Mdecine de la Timone, Marseille, France 2 Groupement de Recherche en Economtrie Quantitative d'Aix-Marseille, Marseille 3 Laboratoire Biocodex, 92120 Montrouge, France Background: Previous studies have shown an antiasthenic effect of citrulline/malate (CM) but the mechanism of action at the muscular level remains unknown. Objective: To investigate the effects of CM supplementation on muscle energetics. Methods: Eighteen men complaining of fatigue but with no documented disease were included in the study. A rest-exercise (finger flexions)-recovery protocol was performed twice before (D-7 and D0), three times during (D3, D8, D15), and once after (D22) 15 days of oral supplementation with 6 g/day CM. Metabolism of the flexor digitorum superficialis was analysed by 31P magnetic resonance spectroscopy at 4.7 T. Results: Metabolic variables measured twice before CM ingestion showed no differences, indicating good reproducibility of measurements and no learning effect from repeating the exercise protocol. CM ingestion resulted in a significant reduction in the sensation of fatigue, a 34% increase in the rate of oxidative ATP production during exercise, and a 20% increase in the rate of phosphocreatine recovery after exercise, indicating a larger contribution of oxidative ATP synthesis to energy production. Considering subjects individually and variables characterising aerobic function, extrema were measured after either eight or 15 days of treatment, indicating chronological heterogeneity of treatment induced changes. One way analysis of variance confirmed improved aerobic function, which may be the result of an enhanced malate supply activating ATP production from the tricarboxylic acid cycle through anaplerotic reactions. Conclusion: The changes in muscle metabolism produced by CM treatment indicate that CM may promote aerobic energy production. ______________________ IronArena.com

25-07-2005, 12:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
Nick500 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,230 Rep Power:	red spy.... is there anything you dont know? ______________________ - Obsession is what lazy people call dedication -

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

24-07-2005, 11:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
razg Legend Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Birmingham/Bristol Posts: 886 Rep Power:	Not sure if this is too obvious - but during hard cardio with a lot of sweating etc, I find simple isotonics (lucozade, high5 etc) actually make a difference to my stamina. I definately feel less dehydrated/dizzy than i would just drinking water. RaZ

25-07-2005, 12:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
Comando Tom Making Progress Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 595 Rep Power:	For an extra buzz try Taurine, (I reconmend not to use this all the time as the body gets us to the effects). Along with 200mg of caffiene for alertness and BCAAs to prevent muscle breakdown during cardio.

25-07-2005, 02:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
adil Under Construction Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 14 Rep Power:	cheers for the advice just to break it down, redspy mentioned taking creating ester and citrulline malate, is there any harm in taking both at the same time And what are other user opinions on them? Cheers again for the help

25-07-2005, 02:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
Comando Tom Making Progress Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 595 Rep Power:	Never used them, but I have heard great feedback on Creatine Ethel Ester. redspy knows his stuff, he wont give you crap advice.